The Jon Gruden Thread, Man

[Silver&Black88]

1 minute ago, raidr4life said:

Man the best Linebacker in the entire draft fell past us 2 years in a row despicable. I'm not hating on Reggie but I have been looking back on his drafts and there are a few wtf moments.

Jack had an ACL.  Literally everyone but New England passed on Jack at least once.  Joseph did a knee too though.  Foster had shoulder and character issues.  He went nuts at the combine.  His production would have been great, can't lie.  At the same time, we needed help at CB.  Conley was a top 15 prospect to a lot of people and fit our scheme like a glove.  The value was great and positionally, I'd rather invest in a CB over a ILB in the first, so no arguments there. Hindsight is tough. 

[Silver&Black88]

1 minute ago, big_palooka said:

And Musgrave was pounding the table for Derrick Henry. Reggie's gotten a pass because of the 2014 class. But he's been pedestrian since otherwise. I'm excited to see some shakeup in the FO and for Gruden I'm sure to have his say on players that fit his system.

Yeah I'm excited to see McKenzie and Gruden work together, I think they could be a good fit.  I was all doom and gloom with @raidr4life just now, but you both have valid points that there is room for improvement with respect to our drafting.

[raidr4life]

6 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

And Musgrave was pounding the table for Derrick Henry. Reggie's gotten a pass because of the 2014 class. But he's been pedestrian since otherwise. I'm excited to see some shakeup in the FO and for Gruden I'm sure to have his say on players that fit his system.

Which is crazy because you passed up a plug and play player like Henry, to take a project like Ward with a 2nd round pick.

[Rich7sena]

1 hour ago, Dessie said:

So nickel defense 50-60%? I think it’s more than that looking at the snap counts tbh.

Irvin could quite easily play SLB in base and DE in nickel. That’s what he did in Seattle. The question is whether we pay him $8m a year to do it. 

Which snap counts? Irvin could play OLB, but like you said, is he worth the money? Further, I don't think he's good enough of a pass rusher to use him in a passing downs role.

37 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

And Musgrave was pounding the table for Derrick Henry. Reggie's gotten a pass because of the 2014 class. But he's been pedestrian since otherwise. I'm excited to see some shakeup in the FO and for Gruden I'm sure to have his say on players that fit his system.

I mean, Derek Henry isn't exactly a super star yet and he's arguably not any better than Latavius Murray was when he was on the Raiders. Would he have been a better pick than Ward? Yes. But of the picks that went after Ward in the 2nd round of the 2016 draft, give me: Michael Thomas, A'Shawn Robinson, Jarran Reed, Deion Jones, and James Bradberry over Henry.

Point is, we can do this all day with a player like Ward. It's not that the team didn't take Henry (or Thomas, or Jones, etc.), it's that the team took Ward.

[Dessie]

20 minutes ago, Rich7sena said:

Which snap counts? Irvin could play OLB, but like you said, is he worth the money? Further, I don't think he's good enough of a pass rusher to use him in a passing downs role.

But that’s the role he’s been playing for us the past 2 years. It’s not a schematic issue, as Irvin fits any scheme. It’s whether he’s worth the money. 

[Rich7sena]

32 minutes ago, Dessie said:

But that’s the role he’s been playing for us the past 2 years. It’s not a schematic issue, as Irvin fits any scheme. It’s whether he’s worth the money. 

He's been playing primarily an edge/rush role.

[raidr4life]

1 hour ago, Rich7sena said:

Which snap counts? Irvin could play OLB, but like you said, is he worth the money? Further, I don't think he's good enough of a pass rusher to use him in a passing downs role.

I mean, Derek Henry isn't exactly a super star yet and he's arguably not any better than Latavius Murray was when he was on the Raiders. Would he have been a better pick than Ward? Yes. But of the picks that went after Ward in the 2nd round of the 2016 draft, give me: Michael Thomas, A'Shawn Robinson, Jarran Reed, Deion Jones, and James Bradberry over Henry.

Point is, we can do this all day with a player like Ward. It's not that the team didn't take Henry (or Thomas, or Jones, etc.), it's that the team took Ward.

A lot of those guy's you just named people here were pounding the table for and when Ward was the pick many of us were caught of guard tho hindsight is 20/20 nobody wanted Ward. I myself was high on Michael Thomas.

[Rich7sena]

3 minutes ago, raidr4life said:

A lot of those guy's you just named people here were pounding the table for and when Ward was the pick many of us were caught of guard tho hindsight is 20/20 nobody wanted Ward. I myself was high on Michael Thomas.

Which is my point.

[NickButera]

Biggest question of the year, is what is Gruden going to do with all his FFCA gear? 

Actually, I'm genuinely curious who's going to replace him on MNF

[Chali21]

2 hours ago, NickButera said:

Biggest question of the year, is what is Gruden going to do with all his FFCA gear? 

Actually, I'm genuinely curious who's going to replace him on MNF

Honestly it could be Rex Ryan, he was on their B team at the beginning of the season. Maybe they try to lure Romo there. But my money is on Rex because he's already in house.

[Dessie]

5 hours ago, Rich7sena said:

He's been playing primarily an edge/rush role.

Which is a pass rusher on passing downs. If you think he isn’t good enough then fair enough but to suggest he can’t play that role is nonsense. 

[Silver&Black88]

3 hours ago, NickButera said:

Biggest question of the year, is what is Gruden going to do with all his FFCA gear? 

Actually, I'm genuinely curious who's going to replace him on MNF

I completely stopped watching after I moved.  MNF at 530?  I have work!  What kind of person considers 5pm Prime Time?!

[Rich7sena]

5 hours ago, Dessie said:

Which is a pass rusher on passing downs. If you think he isn’t good enough then fair enough but to suggest he can’t play that role is nonsense. 

Irvin is more than a pass rusher on passing downs in the Raiders scheme. He rushes the passer on most downs and sometimes drops back into coverage, not the other way around.

I never suggested he can’t play a traditional OLB role, but I question his worth as a traditional OLB at over $8 per.

[Rolni]

2 hours ago, Rich7sena said:

Irvin is more than a pass rusher on passing downs in the Raiders scheme. He rushes the passer on most downs and sometimes drops back into coverage, not the other way around.

I never suggested he can’t play a traditional OLB role, but I question his worth as a traditional OLB at over $8 per.

I think he definately not worth that money as a traditional LB, however I think we can use him creatively and effectively if we want to.

4-3 base: Edwards and Mack are the LDE-RDE pair and Irvin plays SLB. Mostly edge contain run stop duties and some zone cover.

Nickel, dime: Irvin comes down as the RDE while Mack moves to LDE to form a pass rush tandem.

Since everyone plays lots of nickel in todays NFL Irvin would rush a lot and could definately make up for that salary IMO.

I would like to keep him, since Pagano showed what he can be.

[CaliforniaKid7]

8 hours ago, Silver&Black88 said:

I completely stopped watching after I moved.  MNF at 530?  I have work!  What kind of person considers 5pm Prime Time?!

Welcome to the West Coast. Any later and the East Coast would be watching MNF till midnight. 

It makes up for it when I can wake up Sunday and watch football while I eat breakfast.