Weightlifting & Fitness - Everything old is new again!

[Hunter2_1]

2 hours ago, Sugashane said:

Just got off a zoom meeting I was told I needed to be on. Nice of them to give me almost 15 minutes notice. 😅

 

Ok so just to preface this - calories in vs calories out is a good guideline for maintaining but not ALWAYS for weight loss. I'll explain.

Think of burning wood as if it were burning fat. You take x amount of time to burn either. The thing is that if you add something like gas it gets the fire hotter, so you can theoretically burn the wood a bit faster. That is the goal of a Skipload. When you are dieting down it causes your body to suddenly realize it is not getting the normal calorie intake and over time it will slow your metabolism. Dropping from 2500 kcals to 2400 kcals isn't going to cause a dramatic shift but it isnt going to cause much weight loss either. If you're doing a very casual diet then there isn't much of a reason to Skipload and it may actually work against you because there isn't much of a metabolic response to "kickstart."

So we will look at a diet and base it on a weekly protocol, 6 strict days and one Skiploaded day. I choose Sundays because football, family and moderate gluttony go hand in hand for me.  lol    So if I am doing it I will go Monday through Saturday with a strict diet, weigh myself upon waking every morning and then will give myself a period of time to 'refeed' or Skipload that day based off my weight loss from the prior week. I will not freak out following Sunday morning because I likely will gain a pound to up to three by Monday morning. Not fat, but weight.

So since I would be dieting pretty strictly and still lifting over the course of 6 days glycogen stores are pretty damn depleted. Fat then becomes a secondary fuel source through the week, which aids in fat loss. Of course weight loss isn't perfectly linear so I am weighing myself daily and the lowest weight I have in this week will be taken against LAST week's lowest weight. Lets say my lowest weight was 230 this week and my lowest was 233 last week. That is a loss of three pounds, so I will give myself a 6 hour period where I can Skipload. The next week if I had a lowest weight of 227 that would result in the same 3 pound loss, so I would allow myself an 8 hour Skipload. If the following week I lost only 2 pounds at my lowest then I would go back to the 6 hour or step it down to 7 hours. If I maintained 3 or more I would step UP the time I Skipload. It is going to change week to week but the biggest goal is to find the sweet spot that you can Skipload as long as possible on that one predetermined day as possible while not sacrificing fat loss. Everyone responds differently but I have found the 7-8 hour window to be my own. This isn't a constant snackfest, but more of getting 3-4 good meals of whatever you want that fits the criteria. So if I start at 10am I can finish my last meal at about 6pm. Ill eat at 10am, 12:30pm, 3pm, and 5:30pm roughly. Sundays I always finish off my last meal with chicken and broccoli to start my "clean eating" period. Generally I'll take a meal every 2 to 2.5 hours during my Skipload. Some may only do a single too, but I've actually never tried that. At the lowest I've tried was 2 meals over a 3 hour period. I actually find this allows me to eat more overall than gorging since after one gluttonous meal I don't want to eat for 5 hours or so. With this I can be comfortable and ready to eat sooner. Actually when I was bulking this was the case too. I did much better with multiple reasonable meals than massive calorie pushing meals.

So what is a Skipload specifically? The basic thing is it is a window where you go against your diet, traditionally in a very high carb/low fat or high carb/moderate fat period. Generally unless you are getting REALLY lean then the moderate fat seems to about as effective, especially if you're just starting a diet - at least from my experience. Protein in this window doesn't seem to make a difference to me, I've sipped on protein shakes, had steak and potatoes, or gone low protein because I was gorging on pasta. You don't lose muscle after one day of lower protein intake.  Now this isn't meant to eat until you're miserable, but until you're content. Dieting shrinks your stomach as it is already so the first Skipload you'll likely completely overestimate how much youre going to put down. lol    The other caveat is that you try to make these carbs processed carbs (or at least high-GI) rather than low-GI foods like beans, nuts, brown rice, etc. Soft pretzels, pastas, pancakes, sushi, baked potato, etc are all staples for me.

The point of all this is to refill your glycogen stores - which likely will not be at 100% since the window is still abbreviated - while keeping your metabolism from setting a new, lower baseline. Rather than cut 100-200 kcals each week or two, or rotating carbs from high/med/low daily (which still works extremely well of course, Shelby Starnes has been getting people dialed down forever), you get to make a simple consistent plan and then reward yourself on one day. When I was carb cycling I HATE high carb day with a passion, so two days just sucked. Now I show just a little restraint on 6 days because I know I can have that big window Sunday. If I want to eat some pasta on Tuesday I can, just add a little more salad and eat is first so I get full a bit sooner. If I want a burger I will eat a double with it loaded and only a few fries. Next meal Ill make really healthy. It's just easier for me when I want to lose weight this way. Plus now my wife and kids can make a request for me to make a ton of something on Sunday and it will be almost a buffet style deal for us all to enjoy - be is me making a bunch of sushi rolls, a burrito bar, burger assembly line, or breakfast buffet kind of deal.

So why did Skip choose processed carbs? You're trying to fill glycogen stores and they fill them fast as possible. Your body is depleted so this is where the calories in vs calories out thing kind of gets thrown out the window. Rather than accumulate fat you're generally going to have these carbs fast cause a massive insulin spike (which you're probably going to be more insulin sensitive due to conservative carb intake over the last 6 days). Low GI carbs or fibrous veggies will slow the spike dramatically so you get less carbs converted to glycogen and forced into your muscles. With this spike your body doesn't believe it is "starving" so it doesn't lower your metabolism in the same manner as it would with the consistent calorie deficit from traditional dieting. Plus the weight you see on the scale the next day isn't spillover, your liver and muscles have taken in glycogen and you're going to be retaining water too. As you lift the excess water drops and you deplete glycogen stores over the next 6 days. Take your lowest bodyweight again, measure off the previous weeks to see if your Skipload will be a bit longer or shorter, and wash/rinse/repeat. Rather than constantly making adjustments I can generally go 2 months before making any real adjustments to my "diet" and that covers the whole diet for me. I don't let myself dirty bulk anymore so losing 10-15 pounds of fat is all I ever need. A lot of Skip's clients have gone longer and over long periods (like my wife when losing babyweight after our last child) she was able to only make like 4-5 moderate changes over something like 9 months. That is a hell of a lot better than weekly or biweekly adjustments. You won't have dramatic weightloss like with waterfasting or anything like that, but you can be consistent and have it be a much easier diet this way IMO.

That is the difference between Skiploading and other refeeds, cheat days, s***loading, etc. Its structure and how you approach it. I'm not an expert on the matter by any means, but I worked with Skip 10ish years ago and have been actively following him, DC, Justin Harris, and others that I highly respect in the field. It's worked great for me. I'm not an active bodybuilder or powerlifter but spent years trying to pursue both before I realized I'd have as much of a chance going pro as of being a competitive sprinter - none. lol. Now that I'm doing them as a hobby this has helped me maintain and keep healthy without feeling burdened. With my work schedule I absolutely love it.

I see, interesting

As I read that I’m thinking this may be a good technique for me to use, because I’m a fridge raider. My meals are clean and macro friendly and small, and if I were just to stick to that, I’d be at my goal. But I don’t…I succumb quite often. I don’t snack on sht, it may be extra meat or bread or something, but it’s extra food going in and im obviously not in a defecit or I’m spiking my insulin too often. 
 

So with that skip window you’ve explained, that may be able to focus my mind more. “Just wait until Sunday” kind of thing. I am a typical “endo meso” type if you go in for that thing, and I find it harder to burn fat than I do putting on muscle. 
 

How strict are you talking Monday - Sat?

[Sugashane]

On 11/11/2021 at 12:35 PM, Hunter2_1 said:

I see, interesting

As I read that I’m thinking this may be a good technique for me to use, because I’m a fridge raider. My meals are clean and macro friendly and small, and if I were just to stick to that, I’d be at my goal. But I don’t…I succumb quite often. I don’t snack on sht, it may be extra meat or bread or something, but it’s extra food going in and im obviously not in a defecit or I’m spiking my insulin too often. 
 

So with that skip window you’ve explained, that may be able to focus my mind more. “Just wait until Sunday” kind of thing. I am a typical “endo meso” type if you go in for that thing, and I find it harder to burn fat than I do putting on muscle. 
 

How strict are you talking Monday - Sat?

I'm fairly lenient Monday through Saturday, but I rarely have "bad" days. I don't snack on candy, I will drink diet soda with a one bottle to one bottle water ratio too (or diet green tea with citrus), and I get more protein than most. Before bed I will not snack except on baked broccoli since the carbs are largely soluble fiber so you store less. I know there's a lot of data saying late night eating makes no difference than eating it earlier, but the meathead in me can't be completely extinguished. lol

That being said none of my food is never bland. I enjoy every meal or I don't bother - unless I just try something new or make a simple mistake and it sucks. Then I'll pound it down and not do that again. I hate how cheap I am but I can't waste it even if it is a bad try 😒

I don't eat just plain chicken, rice, or broccoli. I season it however the hell I want, I add salsa, taco sauce, hot sauce, ketchup, bbq sauce, or whatever I want for any meal I want. Most dry seasonings are minimal in calories and I don't restrict my salt intake since most of my food I cook. You use way less salt in comparison than eating a lot of processed food, so since I eat processed food one day a week I don't have to limit myself the other 6. Honestly I probably do eat more salt on Sunday than any 3-4 days combined through the rest of the week if not all 6 combined. Don't drink ranch and the 2-3 tablespoons of sauce for your meal won't make a difference. Too many people try to go super strict and then get rapid weight loss but are miserable a few days in, and completely burned out by a month. IMO the biggest reason for diets failing is because

1- it was never taken seriously to begin with

2- it was taken to bodybuilder-dieting-for-a-show-and-in-the-last-week-of-prep levels right from the start and burnout occurs.

Put it this way, my avi was me as a WR in college at 205 and 6'4" and I've tipped a bit over 310 before when I was serious about powerlifting (planned to hold it for a year or so then SLOWLY drop fat to try and keep as much muscle as possible) and now I am holding at a pretty big 260-265. For the bulk of the year I just eat with some sort of conscience and when it gets closer to spring I'll lean out a bit. My goal is just to hold onto what mass I have for 10ish years then look at leaning out when I'm nearing 40 for heart reasons. I want to be the mini zeus at the gym when I'm older. Like George DeFranco

 

[jetsfan4life51]

On 11/11/2021 at 2:35 AM, Hunter2_1 said:

What’s a typical full day of eating for you, Jet?

Average workout day is:

Breakfast- 8 oz 93% grass fed beef, with avocado or nuts....lately I've been having sauerkraut with it, surprisingly tastes great together

Mid morning- 1 scoop protein, 1 scoop collagen

BCAAs pre workout

lots of EAA and electrolytes intra workout

Post workout meal- 8 oz beef/chicken with ~1 cup white rice

Meal 3- 8 oz beef/chicken, depending on workouts may add in a sweet potato or if I'm really hungry I'll eat a ton of butternut squash

Meal 4- 8 oz beef/chicken with whatever veggies I'm in the mood for

Will put olive oil on stuff to get a little more fat

When I get hungry I like to grab hard boiled eggs, berries, bone broth.

 

Non training days is 3 lbs of whatever beef/chicken and veggies. Doing this so I can have fun on the holidays without gaining too much around the midsection like I normally do.  By the time the Spring hits I plan on being lean enough to drastically increase carbs.  Have to start testing my blood sugar again to see how that has changed.  My fasted glucose was too high for my liking.

[Sugashane]

5 hours ago, jetsfan4life51 said:

Average workout day is:

Breakfast- 8 oz 93% grass fed beef, with avocado or nuts....lately I've been having sauerkraut with it, surprisingly tastes great together

Mid morning- 1 scoop protein, 1 scoop collagen

BCAAs pre workout

lots of EAA and electrolytes intra workout

Post workout meal- 8 oz beef/chicken with ~1 cup white rice

Meal 3- 8 oz beef/chicken, depending on workouts may add in a sweet potato or if I'm really hungry I'll eat a ton of butternut squash

Meal 4- 8 oz beef/chicken with whatever veggies I'm in the mood for

Will put olive oil on stuff to get a little more fat

When I get hungry I like to grab hard boiled eggs, berries, bone broth.

 

Non training days is 3 lbs of whatever beef/chicken and veggies. Doing this so I can have fun on the holidays without gaining too much around the midsection like I normally do.  By the time the Spring hits I plan on being lean enough to drastically increase carbs.  Have to start testing my blood sugar again to see how that has changed.  My fasted glucose was too high for my liking.

Sauerkraut and avocado is good together? Do you cook the sauerkraut in any specific way? I'm definitely interested since I'm a fan of both, just never though of them being together.

I have no data to really back me other than how I feel but I feel like sauerkraut helps my stomach as much as kimchi. I try to get a few bites of one each day and can feel the difference.

I've tried to make my own and botched both. Still no idea how I screwed them up but they were both horrible.  🤮

[jetsfan4life51]

35 minutes ago, Sugashane said:

Sauerkraut and avocado is good together? Do you cook the sauerkraut in any specific way? I'm definitely interested since I'm a fan of both, just never though of them being together.

I have no data to really back me other than how I feel but I feel like sauerkraut helps my stomach as much as kimchi. I try to get a few bites of one each day and can feel the difference.

I've tried to make my own and botched both. Still no idea how I screwed them up but they were both horrible.  🤮

Cleveland Kraut Classic Caraway - 16oz : Target

I use this, take a few fork fulls and put it on the plate, no cooking required.  Just recently mixed in the avocado and still tastes good.  Was doing just beef and sauerkraut before.  I like getting the sauerkraut in the morning on an empty stomach.  No idea how it is compared to later in the day but I would think it's good to start the day with the prebiotics.

[minutemancl]

Hit a 230 bench press today, which gives me 1000# total between my bench, deadlift, and back squat. I first heard of the 1000# Club years ago on this forum from a Giants poster who doesn't post here anymore (@xfaxtor). It finally came within reach at the end of last year, and I made it my goal to hit this year. Pretty proud of myself for getting it before the year is up.

[ET80]

13 minutes ago, minutemancl said:

Hit a 230 bench press today, which gives me 1000# total between my bench, deadlift, and back squat. I first heard of the 1000# Club years ago on this forum from a Giants poster who doesn't post here anymore (@xfaxtor). It finally came within reach at the end of last year, and I made it my goal to hit this year. Pretty proud of myself for getting it before the year is up.

I heard about this from you, and it's always sat in the back of my head - it was collectively from squat/deadlift/BP, right? Or is it other lifts included (shoulder press, bent rows, etc)?

If it's squat/dead/BP, I was actually at 895, so 105 off from goal. The thing is, that 315/355/225 taxed the living hell out of me, I didn't realize how much I needed to stop 5x5 and let my knees, hip and shoulder recover a bit. I feel really good now, but I know if I get in another 5x5 routine, I'll probably deload a good amount and really load back up slowly on squat/dead just to spare my hip/sciatica.

I'll keep you posted on if I'm going to go for the 1000 lb club - if I do, I'm actually going to document it via Instagram so I have record.

[minutemancl]

On 12/10/2021 at 10:13 PM, ET80 said:

I heard about this from you, and it's always sat in the back of my head - it was collectively from squat/deadlift/BP, right? Or is it other lifts included (shoulder press, bent rows, etc)?

If it's squat/dead/BP, I was actually at 895, so 105 off from goal. The thing is, that 315/355/225 taxed the living hell out of me, I didn't realize how much I needed to stop 5x5 and let my knees, hip and shoulder recover a bit. I feel really good now, but I know if I get in another 5x5 routine, I'll probably deload a good amount and really load back up slowly on squat/dead just to spare my hip/sciatica.

I'll keep you posted on if I'm going to go for the 1000 lb club - if I do, I'm actually going to document it via Instagram so I have record.

Traditional 1000# Club is 1000 pounds total between 3 lifts- bench, back squat, and deadlift. I learned about a 'crossfit variant' recently that is almost the same, just sub out the bench for an overhead movement (i think some say strict press, but some say a push jerk counts too. I'm not sure which is right). If it is strict press, that's even harder than the traditional one IMO.

Hell yeah man! Get it! I think at the start of this year, I was further away than you are now. I think I was at a 295 squat, like a 350 deadlift, and a 205 bench. I wish I had good advice to give, but I don't have much. I've got awesome coaches that created a really good program to build strength that my body took to really well, so it just kind of naturally happened. Still, I'll offer any advice I do have. 

Edited December 13, 2021 by minutemancl

[JonStark]

12 hours ago, minutemancl said:

Hit a 230 bench press today, which gives me 1000# total between my bench, deadlift, and back squat. I first heard of the 1000# Club years ago on this forum from a Giants poster who doesn't post here anymore (@xfaxtor). It finally came within reach at the end of last year, and I made it my goal to hit this year. Pretty proud of myself for getting it before the year is up.

This was a goal for me at one point and then I went another way with my training, but always wish I would've gotten there. Maybe will go back to get it one day.

Congrats on getting it done!

[OkeyDoke21]

On 12/10/2021 at 9:54 PM, minutemancl said:

xfaxtor

Miss this guy.  He was a great poster in this thread on the old site.  

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

On 12/10/2021 at 10:13 PM, ET80 said:

I heard about this from you, and it's always sat in the back of my head - it was collectively from squat/deadlift/BP, right? Or is it other lifts included (shoulder press, bent rows, etc)?

If it's squat/dead/BP, I was actually at 895, so 105 off from goal. The thing is, that 315/355/225 taxed the living hell out of me, I didn't realize how much I needed to stop 5x5 and let my knees, hip and shoulder recover a bit. I feel really good now, but I know if I get in another 5x5 routine, I'll probably deload a good amount and really load back up slowly on squat/dead just to spare my hip/sciatica.

I'll keep you posted on if I'm going to go for the 1000 lb club - if I do, I'm actually going to document it via Instagram so I have record.

Everyone’s different in how their body reacts, but when I was trying to get stronger I focused one compound movement per workout (of the big 3).

5x5 is a great program, but I don’t find I can go 100% on multiple compound exercises in a workout long term.  It just proved too fatiguing and too hard on my joints as I’m old now.

I would do 3-4 workouts per week. One day centered around bench, another round deadlift the third around squats.  The 4th day was usually a day I would just go back and hit any body parts I wasn’t able to hit as well as I’d have liked days 1-3.  For example on bench day I’d usually do shoulders and triceps, but sometimes I’d get gassed or be busy and couldn’t hit my shoulders well, so I’d do that.  Same with biceps on back day, etc.

Another thing to consider too is if you want to get stronger you need to get used to handling heavier weights (and not just your muscles, but your joints too). Singles, doubles and triples have always done more for me strength wise than 5+ reps.

get it dude, you can do it!

[jetsfan4life51]

I haven't maxed out in a while but based off estimated 1RMs I should be between 1,100-1,200.  My next three months is working on Strength then the three months after will be more Power/Speed work so I get used to lifting with higher velocities and really peak my numbers.

[JonStark]

What whey isolate protein does everyone use? I've finally come to terms with admitting that my delicious tasting protein is crap.

[kingseanjohn]

55 minutes ago, JonStark said:

What whey isolate protein does everyone use? I've finally come to terms with admitting that my delicious tasting protein is crap.

I use Optimum Nutrition's chocolate flavor mixed with almond milk. The taste reminds me of the milk left over from a bowl of Cocoa Pebbles or Cocoa Puffs. I enjoy it. I've also had their vanilla flavor but I wasn't a big fan of it.

Before bed, I take ON Casein in the creamy vanilla flavor. It reminds me of melted vanilla ice cream.

[Sugashane]

8 hours ago, JonStark said:

What whey isolate protein does everyone use? I've finally come to terms with admitting that my delicious tasting protein is crap.

True Nutrition is fantastic. You can make your own blend, add flavorings, or whatever you want and it is priced really well. They save money by not paying for ads in magazines and on fitness sites. I've been using them since they were called True Protein. lol

 

They can taste good and still be solid proteins. The Whey Protein Isolate is my staple (super easy to mix and I don't feel bloated on it), and I just rotate flavors.