Cheese Curds: Green Bay Packers Updates

[Cearbhall]

12 hours ago, vikingsrule said:

Herbert and Burrow. Thought there was more, maybe not. 

Cleveland paid a ton for a QB that has spent most of the season on the shelf.

[SemperFeist]

4 hours ago, Cearbhall said:

Cleveland paid a ton for a QB that has spent most of the season on the shelf.

Arizona also didn’t have Murray for half the season. 

[CWood21]

21 hours ago, sparkyjoe1 said:

Is he doing things that Minshew or Fitzpatrick haven't done? He makes a few great throws a game, a few nice throws a game, a few poor throws a game, and a few throw the remote at the tv throws a game. That is a mid tier qb, which is where I would put him. Not sure how that is biased... Do you think that you are underselling the impact your skill positions are making and contributing that to Love's prowess? I believe your receivers are making Love look better, not the other way around. Comparing him to Mahomes, Hurts, or Herbert is just asinine and if you can't see that, then you don't know football.

I'm not sure I'm following your logic on the first part.  Gardner Mishnew played reasonably well for Jacksonville , especially as a 6th round pick, completing 63% of his passes, with a TD/INT ratio of 3.4, and an ANY/A of 6.35.  The problem was the Jaguars went 7-13 (.350 winning percentage) and ended up with the worst record in football which allowed to take one of the best QB prospects in recent memory.  If that's your barometer of a "bad" QB, I'd hate to know what you think about most of the QBs in the NFL.  Ryan Fitzpatrick in his career completed 61% of his passes, with 1.3 TD/INT ratio, and an ANY/A of 5.65.  Even in his peak year (2015), he completed 59.6% of his passes with a 2.1 TD/INT ratio, and an ANY/A of 6.46.  Compare that to Jordan Love who through 16 games is completing 63% of his passes, 2.7 TD/INT ratio, and an ANY/A of 6.45.  Jordan Love's "floor" is Gardner Minshew.  He's already better than Ryan Fitzpatrick ever was, and the stats back that.  And unlike Minshew, the Packers are knocking the door to the playoffs in his first year starting.  They're a win away from being a playoff team.

Do I think I'm underselling the skill positions?  Absolutely not.  Without looking it up, there's been ONE 100 yard receiver for the Green Bay Packers this year, care to guess who it is?  Bo Melton.  An UDFA who was called up from the practice squad is the ONLY Packer player on the roster with 100 receiving yards in a game.  The Packers have had 9 different receivers or tight ends lead the Packers in receiving yards in a game.

That's not to say the Packers haven't invested a LOT into their skill positions.  They've got 4 SRPs (AJ Dillon, Christian Watson, Jayden Reed, and Luke Musgrave), 2 third round picks (Josiah Deguara and Tucker Kraft), and 2 early Day 3 picks (Dontayvion Wicks and Romeo Doubs).  And Aaron Jones is a top 6 paid RB in terms of AAV.  But unfortunately, injuries have been an issue with some of them.  Aaron Jones has played in 10 out of a possible 16 games as has Luke Musgrave.  Christian Watson has played in 9 out of 16 possible games.  Of all the Packers' skill position players, only Romeo Doubs and Tucker Kraft have played in all 16 games.  Other than Romeo Doubs, none of the Packers' WRs have played in 60%+ of the offensive snaps.  Only Tucker Kraft has played in 50%+ of the offensive snaps for the TE group.  And none of the WRs have eclipsed that mark either.  The Packers currently have 10 skill position players that have played in at least 20% of the offensive snaps.  Just for comparison, the Vikings only have 8 using that same barometer.

21 hours ago, sparkyjoe1 said:

Imagine, just imagine you put your bias away and look at the bigger picture regarding Fields. He was not put in to a position to succeed from the beginning. His biggest issue is consistency and poor coaching. If he had good coaching from the beginning, he'd be a top qb right now. I don't think he's broken yet, but he needs the right coach. Right now, both Love and Fields are inconsistent. Love has had competent coaching and was able to sit and learn behind one if the best (spits the vomit out of my mouth) for 3 years, and is inconsistent. Fields was thrown into the fire in his rookie season after getting to sit behind Andy Dalton for 1 game. Love plays for one of the most stable franchises (again with the vomit, I hate your ownership group), while Fields has been playing for a dumpster fire of a franchise. Love has been a professional qb for 4 years, Fields for 3. You know what, you're right. I see the difference between Love and Fields after all. One was given every opportunity to find success, but has been inconsistent, while the other was set up to fail from the onset, and has been inconsistent. Silly me. 

Prior to last week's game:

Washington/Denver: 43-65 (67.2%), 617 passing yards (9.49 YPA), 8 passing TD (12.3%), 1 INT (1.5%)
9 Other Games: 153-258 (59.3%), 1529 passing yards (5.93 YPA), 7 passing TD (2.7%), 8 INT (3.1%)

Just for perspective, that would be 30th in the NFL in CMP%, 30th in YPA, 28th in TD%, and 29th in INT%.  Justin Fields has had 2 great games.  If he could keep ghat going over the course of the year, he would rank T-6th in CMP%, 2nd in YPA, 1st in TD%, and T-4th in INT%.  Unfortunately, he doesn't get to play against the *checks notes* 26th and 32nd worst defenses in the league on a regular basis.

I'll give you a hint.  If you have to make caveats to support your argument, your argument doesn't have logic behind it and can't stand on its own.  I pray to god that the Bears have that same mentality you have.  Taking the wrong QB sets back a franchise years.  Sticking with that bad choice sets your franchise back decades.  And that's not to say that I think his poor coaching isn't the reason why he's flopped.  But he's 3 years into the league's, and he's the exact same QB he was when he entered the league.  It's not like the NFL is riddled with a ton of QBs who were miserable for their first 3 years in the league, and then suddenly figured it out.

[CWood21]

11 hours ago, SteelKing728 said:

His first half of the season was atrocious. The 2nd half has been outstanding. I think the first half was to be expected from him given the circumstances.

I'd argue there was only a 3 game stretch (NO, DET, LVR) where Love played poorly.  Prior to the offense stalling out in the 4th quarter against Atlanta, Jordan Love was playing extremely well for the first 1.75 games of the season.  But since that Denver game, he's been fantastic.  Since that Denver game, he's 234-354 (66.1%), 2580 passing yards (7.29 YPA), 22 passing TD (6.2% TD%), and 4 INT (1.3% INT%).  The only blemish since that Denver game has been the Steelers game.  And that was more to do with the late game INTs.

11 hours ago, SteelKing728 said:

I'm interested to see how Love continues to progress. I think with some of these young guys around him getting more experience, we should see more consistent results. Maybe not peak Rodgers level of play, but if Love turns out to be a consistent top 10, there won't be a single Packers fan complaining...maybe lol

That's where most people are at.  If he continues to build on this, the Packers clearly "won" the breakup with Rodgers.  If he reverts into a pumpkin and plays like he did during that 3 game stretch, the Packers are going to have a LOT of egg on their face.  But Jordan Love is having arguably a better year than Aaron Rodgers did the year before that.  The major differences is that Jordan Love is 25 years old and Aaron Rodgers was 39, the Packers are 8-8 right now while the '22 Packers were 8-9 and missed the playoffs, and Rodgers' cap hit for the 2022 season was $28.5M while Love's is $4.4M.

[Ozzy]

Packers are going to have to pay some dudes

 

Keisean Nixon starting nickel/boundary
Jon Runyan starting OG
Jonathan Owens starting S
Darnell Savage starting S
AJ Dillon backup RB

 

Jordan Love still on this rookie deal and will be getting a raise pretty soon of course and it should be quite large, possibly even this off season.  And Nixon has played so well he might be getting a very large raise and should be.  

 

I assume they move on from Dillon even though he is a physical force, they might just replace him with Taylor or Wilson.

 

Still the Packers have drafted so well hard to knock them, they hit on almost all their draft picks.  Carlson the kick is good but does miss extra points, most in the NFL but does hit field goals well enough.  Kraft was a total steal and should be the starting TE over Musgrave next year, Kraft should have been a 2nd round pick that is where I had him.  Wicks has been good and Reed obviously has been great.  Brooks and Wooden have been solid and are good rotation guys and Van Ness should be a star obviously.  

 

They fix those secondary issues and they will be set, and they seem to hit on every OL they draft, very solid and deep OL and physical football team.

 

They will have expectations next year though and possibly big ones, is a little different playing against teams where they know you are good.  With Rodgers gone it was like every team was like oh so what we are playing the Packers.  Obviously not going to be like that next year.  

 

They are pretty set with a talented roster that should get even more talented with another good draft.  Drafted very well in 2022 as well, 2021 was kind of suspect but still solid enough.  

 

Really it is the perfect set up and they do not have to deal with a stuck up owner like this guy....  

Crazy thing is why is a billionaire owner in a sky box with Jaguars fans also in there with him?  But the Packers are where it is at, great business model and it even increases the fan support for the team because they think they own the team and in a ridiculous percentage way, they can and kind of do....

 

 

 

Would be nuts if Jordan Love turns into a Hall of Famer so they would have three in a row, that might be a stretch, sure great year this season but Bortles passed for 3600+ yards one year and went to the AFC title, Keenum passed for 3800+ yards on the Broncos, Carson Wentz had well over 4000 yards on the Eagles one year, Jameis Winston of course started out his career with back to back 4000 yard seasons then that one 5000 yard passing year and he barely can even play now, even Sam Howell this year had almost 3800 yards passing so there is that....

[wcblack34]

I'm perfectly fine with the Packers talking themselves into $50MM a year for Jordan Love. This is a dream scenario. 

[swede700]

I don't know about the others but the Packers aren't paying AJ Dillon.  He's a bum. 

[Spartacus]

13 hours ago, Ozzy said:

Keisean Nixon starting nickel/boundary
Jon Runyan starting OG
Jonathan Owens starting S
Darnell Savage starting S
AJ Dillon backup RB

Most of those guys are easily replaceable with street FA/draft picks. Keisean Nixon being the best of the bunch isn't saying much. After his great year returning last year he has been pretty quiet this year and you could argue his ultra aggressive returns have actually hurt more then they helped. At nickel he is no more than average if that. I assume he will be the first guy giving up snaps if the Packers draft a CB high. 

JRJ has been pretty dreadful at OG. By far the weakest link on the OL. He has been splitting snaps 50/50 with Sean Rhyan for awhile now so him leaving is really no biggy as Sean will just take the other snaps. Definently a position the Packers might try to upgrade in the draft. 

Jonathan Owens is Jonathan Owens. Not great but serviceable. Would rather have him be the #3 safety instead of starting but the Packers are completely devoid of talent there. I would  resign him as I don't think he would be very expensive. 

Savage is the same as Owens. Serviceable at best but unlike Owens has been injured. Easy cut unless he wants to work for not much of anything. 

AJ Dillon is a JAG. Will probably get replaced with a draft pick this upcoming year. 

[Spartacus]

7 hours ago, wcblack34 said:

I'm perfectly fine with the Packers talking themselves into $50MM a year for Jordan Love. This is a dream scenario. 

And this is dream copium. 

[Mdpackfan22]

On 1/1/2024 at 7:11 PM, sparkyjoe1 said:

Is he doing things that Minshew or Fitzpatrick haven't done? He makes a few great throws a game, a few nice throws a game, a few poor throws a game, and a few throw the remote at the tv throws a game. That is a mid tier qb, which is where I would put him. Not sure how that is biased... Do you think that you are underselling the impact your skill positions are making and contributing that to Love's prowess? I believe your receivers are making Love look better, not the other way around. Comparing him to Mahomes, Hurts, or Herbert is just asinine and if you can't see that, then you don't know football.

Imagine, just imagine you put your bias away and look at the bigger picture regarding Fields. He was not put in to a position to succeed from the beginning. His biggest issue is consistency and poor coaching. If he had good coaching from the beginning, he'd be a top qb right now. I don't think he's broken yet, but he needs the right coach. Right now, both Love and Fields are inconsistent. Love has had competent coaching and was able to sit and learn behind one if the best (spits the vomit out of my mouth) for 3 years, and is inconsistent. Fields was thrown into the fire in his rookie season after getting to sit behind Andy Dalton for 1 game. Love plays for one of the most stable franchises (again with the vomit, I hate your ownership group), while Fields has been playing for a dumpster fire of a franchise. Love has been a professional qb for 4 years, Fields for 3. You know what, you're right. I see the difference between Love and Fields after all. One was given every opportunity to find success, but has been inconsistent, while the other was set up to fail from the onset, and has been inconsistent. Silly me. 

Holy copium I've seen it all now. So our receiving core of all rookies and 2nd year players(majority of whom have missed significant time) are the ones making Love look good? Can't make that up.

 

No QB has done more with less this year. If Love had a slightly better defense, he would be in the MVP convo

Edited January 3 by Mdpackfan22

[sparkyjoe1]

On 1/2/2024 at 6:04 PM, CWood21 said:

I'm not sure I'm following your logic on the first part.  Gardner Mishnew played reasonably well for Jacksonville , especially as a 6th round pick, completing 63% of his passes, with a TD/INT ratio of 3.4, and an ANY/A of 6.35.  The problem was the Jaguars went 7-13 (.350 winning percentage) and ended up with the worst record in football which allowed to take one of the best QB prospects in recent memory.  If that's your barometer of a "bad" QB, I'd hate to know what you think about most of the QBs in the NFL.  Ryan Fitzpatrick in his career completed 61% of his passes, with 1.3 TD/INT ratio, and an ANY/A of 5.65.  Even in his peak year (2015), he completed 59.6% of his passes with a 2.1 TD/INT ratio, and an ANY/A of 6.46.  Compare that to Jordan Love who through 16 games is completing 63% of his passes, 2.7 TD/INT ratio, and an ANY/A of 6.45.  Jordan Love's "floor" is Gardner Minshew.  He's already better than Ryan Fitzpatrick ever was, and the stats back that.  And unlike Minshew, the Packers are knocking the door to the playoffs in his first year starting.  They're a win away from being a playoff team.

Do I think I'm underselling the skill positions?  Absolutely not.  Without looking it up, there's been ONE 100 yard receiver for the Green Bay Packers this year, care to guess who it is?  Bo Melton.  An UDFA who was called up from the practice squad is the ONLY Packer player on the roster with 100 receiving yards in a game.  The Packers have had 9 different receivers or tight ends lead the Packers in receiving yards in a game.

That's not to say the Packers haven't invested a LOT into their skill positions.  They've got 4 SRPs (AJ Dillon, Christian Watson, Jayden Reed, and Luke Musgrave), 2 third round picks (Josiah Deguara and Tucker Kraft), and 2 early Day 3 picks (Dontayvion Wicks and Romeo Doubs).  And Aaron Jones is a top 6 paid RB in terms of AAV.  But unfortunately, injuries have been an issue with some of them.  Aaron Jones has played in 10 out of a possible 16 games as has Luke Musgrave.  Christian Watson has played in 9 out of 16 possible games.  Of all the Packers' skill position players, only Romeo Doubs and Tucker Kraft have played in all 16 games.  Other than Romeo Doubs, none of the Packers' WRs have played in 60%+ of the offensive snaps.  Only Tucker Kraft has played in 50%+ of the offensive snaps for the TE group.  And none of the WRs have eclipsed that mark either.  The Packers currently have 10 skill position players that have played in at least 20% of the offensive snaps.  Just for comparison, the Vikings only have 8 using that same barometer.

Prior to last week's game:

Washington/Denver: 43-65 (67.2%), 617 passing yards (9.49 YPA), 8 passing TD (12.3%), 1 INT (1.5%)
9 Other Games: 153-258 (59.3%), 1529 passing yards (5.93 YPA), 7 passing TD (2.7%), 8 INT (3.1%)

Just for perspective, that would be 30th in the NFL in CMP%, 30th in YPA, 28th in TD%, and 29th in INT%.  Justin Fields has had 2 great games.  If he could keep ghat going over the course of the year, he would rank T-6th in CMP%, 2nd in YPA, 1st in TD%, and T-4th in INT%.  Unfortunately, he doesn't get to play against the *checks notes* 26th and 32nd worst defenses in the league on a regular basis.

I'll give you a hint.  If you have to make caveats to support your argument, your argument doesn't have logic behind it and can't stand on its own.  I pray to god that the Bears have that same mentality you have.  Taking the wrong QB sets back a franchise years.  Sticking with that bad choice sets your franchise back decades.  And that's not to say that I think his poor coaching isn't the reason why he's flopped.  But he's 3 years into the league's, and he's the exact same QB he was when he entered the league.  It's not like the NFL is riddled with a ton of QBs who were miserable for their first 3 years in the league, and then suddenly figured it out.

Both Minshew and Fitzpatrick had games where they've looked brilliant, games where they've been solid, and games where they've looked bad, which is where Love is at, that's all I was saying... I wasn't making a direct comparison of the players, just the types of games they have produced. I don't recall saying Love was "bad", I believe I referred to him as mid-tier, maybe I'm mistaken. I've watched most of your games, and every game I've watched there have been some great throws, some good throws, some poor throws, and some terrible throws. Even in this last game against the Vikings, he made some really poor throws that either left a ton of yards on the field or were flat out misses. Maybe I'm remembering wrong, but it seemed as though Rodgers never missed those opportunities, but Love misses them often. It's just amusing how you (not necessarily you specifically) can have 2 qbs that played very similar yet have opposite opinions of them. 

My "argument" was that I don't know who I'd choose between Love and Fields, not whether either of them would be the future of my team. I don't know that I'd be happy with either of them right now, as neither has consistently shown to be a franchise qb. Love has shown more as a passer, while Fields has shown to be more a dynamic runner. I prefer my qbs to be better at throwing, so I'd honestly lean Love if I had to chose, but I'm not sold on either (nor do I think either should be thrown on the scrap heap yet). It's just silly the amount of praise Love is getting for what really is just a mid-tier performance. 

[sparkyjoe1]

6 hours ago, Mdpackfan22 said:

Holy copium I've seen it all now. So our receiving core of all rookies and 2nd year players(majority of whom have missed significant time) are the ones making Love look good? Can't make that up.

 

No QB has done more with less this year. If Love had a slightly better defense, he would be in the MVP convo

Your receivers absolutely have made him look better, but you're entitled to your opinion. As far as having the mvp conversation, I needed a good laugh today!

Edited January 4 by sparkyjoe1
Spelling

[SteelKing728]

I think Love should be a lock for the Probowl, but that's it.

I hope they keep Joe Barry and continue to suffer.

[SteelKing728]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/nfl/article-12917227/Packers-Aaron-Jones-punch-face-Vikings-Andrew-Booth-Jr.html

I might have missed this, but could Booth get suspended for hitting Jones after the game?

[Ozzy]

12 hours ago, swede700 said:

I don't know about the others but the Packers aren't paying AJ Dillon.  He's a bum. 

The guy has had 803 yards, 770 yards and 613 yards the last three years and is a physical force.  Sure he is most likely replaced by Taylor or Wilson who are both big back as well.  But Dillon can play and impacts the game physically, not mnay if any backs in the NFL compare to him physically with that leg power, I love power backs and he is one.  

Bum?  

 

Leroy Hoard was very good on the Vikings back in the day and was a key role to a great offense as a power back and change of pace back and he never rushed for over 600 yards as a Viking.  

 

AJ Dillon does not put up huge stats but he also does not get the ball a ton compared to a full time starter.  With a team that actually uses a FB or has more of a HB, Dillon could be more successful.  Packers use a lot of WR bunches, no FB, not even duel TEs that often either....  Dillon would be better with some more traditional run schemes possibly.  But sure any RB is not worth a thing because there are 20-30 guys in college and one can get a quality back in the late rounds or as a UDFA....

But fact is if one is looking for a physical profile like AJ Dillon, you will not find it honestly, not many guys built like that.