Around the NFL II - Even NFLier

[N4L]

@NcFinest9erFan thank you for posting those, have some footballs 

[Forge]

8 hours ago, Ftn49 said:

Just out of curiosity, say you're the Pittsburgh GM, what is the minimum you would take for him? If I was their GM I would say a first round pick or some approximation thereof. If I'm the niners GM while I think he is a fantastic player on a rebuilding team like we are, it is too much compensation for a rebuilding team. I'd rather have Williams personally because he costs me much less assuming both options are on the table.

Two years ago Cleveland pulled that trade for Brock Osweiler effectively setting the market at 16 million for a 2nd round pick. Lets assume that Williams gets 10 mil/year which is top of the wide receiver market. To get Brown we would have to sign him to a new contract, probably resetting the WR market in the process, say 12 mil/year. Plus the draft pick capital which if I am correct is higher than the Osweiler deal. Just for the sake of argument lets call that pick worth 25 million dollars. 

My figuring creates a rediculous amount of assumptions but to me Tyrell Williams @ 10 mil > Antonio Brown @ 37 mil. Just my thinking, tear apart if you want.

There's a lot that really isn't correct in here, so I need to spin some stuff out and either get clarity on what you mean, or correct it. 

Where are you getting 10 million is the top of the receiver market? The top of the receiver market is 18. Sammy Watkins got 16/yr and he's a wonderfully mediocre wide receiver who can't stay healthy. Jarvis got 15/yr. DT just played out the string at 14/yr. It wouldn't at all shock me if Williams got a deal that is comparable to what AB has left on his deal, so I think you can throw the money aspect out the window. Quincy Enunwa just got 9 million a season. 

You also aren't required to sign Brown to an extension. That's a concern that some people have, it's not a guarantee. He's under contract for three more years. Seldom do you see teams restructure or extend guys with three years left. And he hasn't given a single hint that he wants more money at this point or that he's threatening to hold out. Again, right now that's just a worry that some people have but thus far, is largely baseless. 

Furthermore, the deal for Brock was not brock for a second. It was Brock + current 6th + future 2 (basically a 3) for Current 4. Not really sure what this matters to with regards a trade for AB v signing Tyrell Williams, but in the interest or accuracy, needed to be corrected. 

As for the trade, and this is only my own personal opinion, obviously:  

People need to get it out of their head that we are "rebuilding". That time has pretty much come and gone. We are into year 3 of this regime...they need to start putting quality seasons together. If this team struggles again this year, some heads are rolling (most likely Saleh) and year 4 could easily be the end of the line for them with only two years left on the deal (Jed has shown no remorse in canning guys with that long left on their deal; we fired both Chip and tomsula with 3 years left on their deal, and in 2017, owed 69 million dollars to former coaches). It's time to step up and make a play. This regime hasn't really done all that great if you really look at it. #2 overall pick turns into a huge bust. Another #1 pick already off the roster. Your handpicked quarterback that you traded up for really shouldn't even be on the roster next year, and your hand picked drafted running back that year is already off the roster. Your free agent moves have been stricken with some pretty bad flops and overpays (Richburg, Smith, Garcon, McKinnon, and honestly even Coyle, Gilliam, cooper),  and you still have no idea what you have in the franchise quarterback you signed to one of the biggest deals in history. We like this regime, they are personable, easy to like, seem to know their stuff,  but their results have been spotty at best at this point, injuries or no. 

I've continued to lament this over and over again this offseason -  we need to stop overpaying for nickel and dime type players. That's basically what taking Tyrell Williams over AB would be to me. We need top end players. We need real, elite talent that actually improves the team if we are going to keep up with teams like the Rams and the Chiefs and etc etc etc. The difference between Tyrell and AB is pretty colossal in my opinion, and when throwing the money out the window, that difference is easily worth a second round pick to me. Maybe even a second and a future third or something (or the preferred trade of a current third and future 2). I get that some people don't want to give up the picks - but man, picks really tend to get overrated. I mean, we traded a top of the third round pick last year for a completely unknown receiver quantity and some people were fine with that, so I don't know why there would be a big deal over the draft compensation going back to Pitt for AB.   We need to make a hard play for the likes of ET and probably CJ Moseley. If Frank Clark or Lawrence somehow hit the market, we need to be all in on that. We need top end talent or we simply can't compete with teams that do. 

Again, just personal opinion. Tyrell is a fine player. Doesn't move the needle for me with regards to improving the team all that much. What is he really bringing to the table? He can go deep, but so can Goodwin. Even though he's 6'4", he's not a red zone guy. He's had 4 career touchdowns in the redzone. That's less than a quarter of his touchdowns. So what are we really bringing him in for? Is he even a real upgrade over a healthy Goodwin? I don't know. He may be, but at the same time, I think it's kind of nominal. So you maybe shell out 12m/yr to get marginally better at the wide receiver position over what you already have? I don't know, don't love that. 

Edit - 

Just a side note, this really isn't AB specific. I don't care if it's AB, or the resources are allocated to other premiere players. AB is simply the obvious example right now of a top end talent where the cost isn't crazy prohibitive. 

[NcFinest9erFan]

21 minutes ago, Forge said:

There's a lot that really isn't correct in here, so I need to do spin some stuff out and either get clarity on what you mean, or correct it. 

Where are you getting 10 million is the top of the receiver market? The top of the receiver market is 18. Sammy Watkins got 16/yr and he's a wonderfully mediocre wide receiver who can't stay healthy. Jarvis got 15/yr. DT is played out the string at 14/yr. It wouldn't at all shock me if Williams got a deal that is comparable to what AB has left on his deal, so I think you can throw the money aspect out the window. Quincy Enunwa just got 9 million a season. 

You also aren't required to sign Brown to an extension. That's a concern that some people have, it's not a guarantee. He's under contract for three more years. Seldom do you see teams restructure or extend guys with three years left. And he hasn't given a single hint that he wants more money at this point or that he's threatening to hold out. Again, right now that's just a worry that some people have. 

Furthermore, the deal for Brock was not brock for a second. It was Brock + current 6th + future 2 (basically a 3) for Current 4. Not really sure what this matters to with regards a trade for AB v signing Tyrell Williams, but in the interest or accuracy, needed to be corrected. 

As for the trade, and this is only my own personal opinion, obviously:  

People need to get it out of their head that we are "rebuilding". That time has pretty much come and gone. We are into year 3 of this regime...they need to start putting quality seasons together. If this team struggles again this year, some heads are rolling (most likely Saleh) and year 4 could easily be the end of the line for them with only two years left on the deal (Jed has shown no remorse in canning guys with that long left on their deal; we fired both Chip and tomsula with 3 years left on their deal, and in 2017, owed 69 million dollars to former coaches. It's time to step up and make a play. This regime hasn't really done all that great if you really look it. #2 overall pick turns into a huge bust. Another #1 pick already off the roster. Your handpicked quarterback that you traded up for really shouldn't even be on the roster next year, and your hand picked drafted running back that year is already off the roster. Your free agent moves have been stricken with some pretty bad flops and overpays (Richburg, Smith, Garcon, McKinnon, and honestly even Coyle, Gilliam),  and you still have no idea what you have in the franchise quarterback you signed to one of the biggest deals in history. We like this regime, they are personable, easy to like, seem to know their stuff,  but their results have been spotty at best at this point, injuries or no. 

I've continued to lament this over and over again this offseason -  we need to stop overpaying for nickel and dime type players. That's basically what taking Tyrell Williams over AB would be to me. We need top end players. We need real, elite talent that actually improves the team if we are going to keep up with teams like the Rams and the Chiefs and etc etc etc. The difference between Tyrell and AB is pretty colossal in my opinion, and when throwing the money out the window, that difference is easily worth a second round pick to me. Maybe even a second and a future third or something (or the preferred trade of a current third and future 2). I get that some people don't want to give up the picks - but man, picks really tend to get overrated. I mean, we traded a top of the third round pick last year for a completely unknown receiver quantity last year that some people were fine with, so I don't know why there would be a big deal over the draft compensation going back to Pitt for AB.   We need to make a hard play for the likes of ET and probably CJ Moseley. If Frank Clark or Lawrence somehow hit the market, we need to be all in on that. We need top end talent or we simply can't compete with teams that do. 

Again, just personal opinion. Tyrell is a fine player. Doesn't move the needle for me with regards to improving the team all that much. What is he really bringing to the table? He can go deep, but so can Goodwin. Even though he's 6'4", he's not a red zone guy. He's had 4 career touchdowns in the redzone. That's less than a quarter of his touchdowns. So what are we really bringing him in for? Is he even a real upgrade over a healthy Goodwin? I don't know. He may be, but at the same time, I think it's kind of nominal. So you maybe shell out 12m/yr to get marginally better at the wide receiver position over what you already have? I don't know, don't love that. 

Edit - 

Just a side note, this really isn't AB specific. I don't care it's AB, or the resources are allocated to other premiere players. AB is simply the obvious example right now of a top end talent where the cost isn't crazy prohibitive. 

Pretty much what I think going into this off season. Usually I say sit back and develop our players but its year 3 and we need to start making some noise...

[y2lamanaki]

2 hours ago, NcFinest9erFan said:

Pretty much what I think going into this off season. Usually I say sit back and develop our players but its year 3 and we need to start making some noise...

Another option is - we can do both. 

@Forge is right. We need star power additions in key spots. I'm hoping we can sign or trade for 2 or 3 in key spots. Throw money at the edge and double or triple down in the draft (meaning, come away with 3 guys at the position better than what we have). I feel great about that with the assets (#2, #36, $$$) we have and the unusual wealth of talent out there. Hopefully, one of those three is a superstar, but quite frankly, with Buckner in the middle, I will be happy if one of those three is merely a great addition and the other two contribute more than what we've had, which has been next to nothing. Preferably two starters, but if one is a star, I'll settle for two guys that are just better depth.

The team also needs talent at linebacker and safety and competition at corner on defense. The team needs a star added to the secondary. The team needs a star on offense to pair with Kittle. I don't care if it's a RB, WR, or a crazy tight end pairing. We need someone other than Kittle, and that someone needs to score TDs. 

So I think the team needs to make 3 big moves - one on offense (RB, WR, TE) and two on defense (EDGE, LB, S, CB). Top end talent at any combination of those spots. And then talent at all of those spots where a star wasn't added. Yes, even RB. We have health issues there, and the team doesn't need to waste any major resources to do so. The team can do wonders with late round and undrafted talent so just add a guy at the end of the draft or sign an undrafted one. And then add talent to Tackle and Guard as well (totally fine if a 4th star can be found here). 

I think I'm wanting a minimum of 11 guys (RB, WR, TE, OT, C/G, EDGE (x3, 1 as a SAM), LB, CB, S). One star needs to come via the #2 pick. Great chance that's at EDGE. Then add the other three via trade or free agency. From there, we can still add some great talent at a spot or two with leftover money in FA and as well as at least one spot on Day two (assuming the possibility of losing one of those picks via trade, but not both). And then depth at those other spots with Day 3 picks, undrafted players, and bargain free agents. 

But from there - even with all those additions - the team still needs a lot of talent and depth. Guys that are on the roster need to develop still. Witherspoon, Moore, Warner, Pettis, Taylor, James (if still around), DJ Jones, Colbert, and of course, Solomon Thomas need to keep developing because they all are going to have roles in 2019. The team doesn't have the depth to make any of them obsolete, and a bunch are still going to  have big roles.

[Ftn49]

5 hours ago, y2lamanaki said:

Another option is - we can do both. 

@Forge is right. We need star power additions in key spots. I'm hoping we can sign or trade for 2 or 3 in key spots. Throw money at the edge and double or triple down in the draft (meaning, come away with 3 guys at the position better than what we have). I feel great about that with the assets (#2, #36, $$$) we have and the unusual wealth of talent out there. Hopefully, one of those three is a superstar, but quite frankly, with Buckner in the middle, I will be happy if one of those three is merely a great addition and the other two contribute more than what we've had, which has been next to nothing. Preferably two starters, but if one is a star, I'll settle for two guys that are just better depth.

The team also needs talent at linebacker and safety and competition at corner on defense. The team needs a star added to the secondary. The team needs a star on offense to pair with Kittle. I don't care if it's a RB, WR, or a crazy tight end pairing. We need someone other than Kittle, and that someone needs to score TDs. 

So I think the team needs to make 3 big moves - one on offense (RB, WR, TE) and two on defense (EDGE, LB, S, CB). Top end talent at any combination of those spots. And then talent at all of those spots where a star wasn't added. Yes, even RB. We have health issues there, and the team doesn't need to waste any major resources to do so. The team can do wonders with late round and undrafted talent so just add a guy at the end of the draft or sign an undrafted one. And then add talent to Tackle and Guard as well (totally fine if a 4th star can be found here). 

I think I'm wanting a minimum of 11 guys (RB, WR, TE, OT, C/G, EDGE (x3, 1 as a SAM), LB, CB, S). One star needs to come via the #2 pick. Great chance that's at EDGE. Then add the other three via trade or free agency. From there, we can still add some great talent at a spot or two with leftover money in FA and as well as at least one spot on Day two (assuming the possibility of losing one of those picks via trade, but not both). And then depth at those other spots with Day 3 picks, undrafted players, and bargain free agents. 

But from there - even with all those additions - the team still needs a lot of talent and depth. Guys that are on the roster need to develop still. Witherspoon, Moore, Warner, Pettis, Taylor, James (if still around), DJ Jones, Colbert, and of course, Solomon Thomas need to keep developing because they all are going to have roles in 2019. The team doesn't have the depth to make any of them obsolete, and a bunch are still going to  have big roles.

See when your talking about needing 11 guys and 5 stars at that isn't a ready set roster that is able to trade those multiple picks for 1 guy. This isn't necessarily directed at you Y2. But other guys agreed with the post.

Even with a great class we are not ready to contend yet. With a great class we may be a year away imo. As Y2 said we need depth everywhere and multiple starters. We are rebuilding and that is why shanny and lynch got those long deals with no offsets to start with. Usually you take small incremental steps at first and then the big leaps later. We are picking 2nd in the draft in the draft for a reason. Baby steps.

[Ftn49]

8 hours ago, Forge said:

There's a lot that really isn't correct in here, so I need to spin some stuff out and either get clarity on what you mean, or correct it. 

Where are you getting 10 million is the top of the receiver market? The top of the receiver market is 18. Sammy Watkins got 16/yr and he's a wonderfully mediocre wide receiver who can't stay healthy. Jarvis got 15/yr. DT just played out the string at 14/yr. It wouldn't at all shock me if Williams got a deal that is comparable to what AB has left on his deal, so I think you can throw the money aspect out the window. Quincy Enunwa just got 9 million a season. 

You also aren't required to sign Brown to an extension. That's a concern that some people have, it's not a guarantee. He's under contract for three more years. Seldom do you see teams restructure or extend guys with three years left. And he hasn't given a single hint that he wants more money at this point or that he's threatening to hold out. Again, right now that's just a worry that some people have but thus far, is largely baseless. 

Furthermore, the deal for Brock was not brock for a second. It was Brock + current 6th + future 2 (basically a 3) for Current 4. Not really sure what this matters to with regards a trade for AB v signing Tyrell Williams, but in the interest or accuracy, needed to be corrected. 

As for the trade, and this is only my own personal opinion, obviously:  

People need to get it out of their head that we are "rebuilding". That time has pretty much come and gone. We are into year 3 of this regime...they need to start putting quality seasons together. If this team struggles again this year, some heads are rolling (most likely Saleh) and year 4 could easily be the end of the line for them with only two years left on the deal (Jed has shown no remorse in canning guys with that long left on their deal; we fired both Chip and tomsula with 3 years left on their deal, and in 2017, owed 69 million dollars to former coaches). It's time to step up and make a play. This regime hasn't really done all that great if you really look at it. #2 overall pick turns into a huge bust. Another #1 pick already off the roster. Your handpicked quarterback that you traded up for really shouldn't even be on the roster next year, and your hand picked drafted running back that year is already off the roster. Your free agent moves have been stricken with some pretty bad flops and overpays (Richburg, Smith, Garcon, McKinnon, and honestly even Coyle, Gilliam, cooper),  and you still have no idea what you have in the franchise quarterback you signed to one of the biggest deals in history. We like this regime, they are personable, easy to like, seem to know their stuff,  but their results have been spotty at best at this point, injuries or no. 

I've continued to lament this over and over again this offseason -  we need to stop overpaying for nickel and dime type players. That's basically what taking Tyrell Williams over AB would be to me. We need top end players. We need real, elite talent that actually improves the team if we are going to keep up with teams like the Rams and the Chiefs and etc etc etc. The difference between Tyrell and AB is pretty colossal in my opinion, and when throwing the money out the window, that difference is easily worth a second round pick to me. Maybe even a second and a future third or something (or the preferred trade of a current third and future 2). I get that some people don't want to give up the picks - but man, picks really tend to get overrated. I mean, we traded a top of the third round pick last year for a completely unknown receiver quantity and some people were fine with that, so I don't know why there would be a big deal over the draft compensation going back to Pitt for AB.   We need to make a hard play for the likes of ET and probably CJ Moseley. If Frank Clark or Lawrence somehow hit the market, we need to be all in on that. We need top end talent or we simply can't compete with teams that do. 

Again, just personal opinion. Tyrell is a fine player. Doesn't move the needle for me with regards to improving the team all that much. What is he really bringing to the table? He can go deep, but so can Goodwin. Even though he's 6'4", he's not a red zone guy. He's had 4 career touchdowns in the redzone. That's less than a quarter of his touchdowns. So what are we really bringing him in for? Is he even a real upgrade over a healthy Goodwin? I don't know. He may be, but at the same time, I think it's kind of nominal. So you maybe shell out 12m/yr to get marginally better at the wide receiver position over what you already have? I don't know, don't love that. 

Edit - 

Just a side note, this really isn't AB specific. I don't care if it's AB, or the resources are allocated to other premiere players. AB is simply the obvious example right now of a top end talent where the cost isn't crazy prohibitive. 

You are right I didnt dig into the trade enough. I remembered it and and there were concessions I didnt get into. I dont realky have time to get into it right now but as I have voiced in other spots on the board, I dont like trading for brown for multiple reasons. It doesnt make sense to me.i can understand why other posters do, it is a preference thing. But I think it is a pipe dream.

[757-NINER]

I don't think anywhere is disputing we definitely lack talent and need a infusion of it. I was one of the first ppl to say I'd trade two 1st for for Khalil Mack without hesitation. Because to win in this league, you must affect the pocket in passing situations. And adding a DPOY type of talent to do just that made too much sense. But I don't get this need for AB. And I don't get the assumption that this is some make or break year where any kind of talent will do.

Do we need to see improvement from all aspects of the team? Absolutely. But this is still a very young team, in the early stages of building a foundation of winning. This was a complete rebuild when Lynch and Shanny came aboard. I think the trade for Jimmy G and his presence on the roster has given some, this false narrative that we're now contenders. We are not. A healthy Jimmy makes us now competitive. But this doesn't stop the process. A process that most knew would take us 3-4 years. As we all saw this year, you take Jimmy out if this equation and this is still a team in rebuild. We're picking top 5 yet again, for a very good reason. 

So my issue isn't adding talent as much as it's with who the talent is. AB is a helluva WR. But I'm not of the belief that he changes much for this offense. The system that Shanny runs is very WR friendly. It's complicated from a X's and O's standpoint but he get guys running free against defensive game plans, more often than not. I don't believe he needs a true #1 WR for his system to run at a high level. He needs a certain type of WR to operate his system effectively but I don't believe a true #1 is essential. So I think the impact of a AB in this offense will be diluted to some degree. He would definitely help draw coverages and isolate certain match-ups when he's on the field. But in terms of wins and losses, I don't feel his impact will move the needle because he plays at a position that I think will always generate production as long as Shanny has a capable QB, which I believe he has. 

Now if we were talking about trading for a Jalen Ramsey or a Stephone Gilmore,  or a Melvin Ingram or a Justin Houston in this same type of scenario, I'd be all-in. Because I feel those players play at positions that would greatly affect wins and losses for this team and the lack of talent we have in those areas. But I'm just not a fan of giving updraft captial at this point for a position like WR when those picks could be used to fill some of the talent and depth issues that are currently plaguing the roster in more critical areas of need. 

Edited February 3, 2019 by 757-NINER

[oldman9er]

9 hours ago, Ftn49 said:

We are picking 2nd in the draft in the draft for a reason.

Jimmy G season injury in week 3, a new system for many to learn, and a huge failed gamble at the LEO position. 

All three of these issues should be remedied for us by September. 

 

38 minutes ago, 757-NINER said:

this false narrative that we're now contenders. We are not. A healthy Jimmy makes us now competitive. But this doesn't stop the process. A process that most knew would take us 3-4 years. As we all saw this year, you take Jimmy out if this equation and this is still a team in rebuild. We're picking top 5 yet again, for a very good reason. 

I don't agree with either. If you don't want to put faith into them, even if concerns are valid, that is certainly your prerogative. But don't tell other people that their reasonable faith is a false narrative. None of us know what is ahead. 

It can take time for players to acclimate to new schemes. Losing your QB1 is usually a death knell. They gambled and lost huge on their LEO situation. A mistake that would seem impossible to occur again. With more scheme familiarity, and a few upgrades.. which we have the resources for.. I say we will be contenders. It's far too early to take a hard stand on either side here. After the Draft and FA, things can be more clear.

You're of course welcomed to believe that we are not close, but it's a situation that deserves a flexible spectrum of optimism. Competent depth is easy enough to add, if the coaching is up to snuff, and adding "5 stars" seems hyperbolic to what it will take to be contenders. 

Edited February 2, 2019 by oldman9er

[y2lamanaki]

10 hours ago, Ftn49 said:

See when your talking about needing 11 guys and 5 stars at that isn't a ready set roster that is able to trade those multiple picks for 1 guy. This isn't necessarily directed at you Y2. But other guys agreed with the post.

Even with a great class we are not ready to contend yet. With a great class we may be a year away imo. As Y2 said we need depth everywhere and multiple starters. We are rebuilding and that is why shanny and lynch got those long deals with no offsets to start with. Usually you take small incremental steps at first and then the big leaps later. We are picking 2nd in the draft in the draft for a reason. Baby steps.

I disagree that we are far away. Adding a superstar on offense and Jimmy staying healthy is all we really need for a top end offense. That and improving the pass rush would be enough for the playoffs where anything can happen. Most of what we need is depth for overcoming key injuries. But star talent is needed for true contention. And looking around at what appears to be available this year, I think it's very possible. 

And I wouldn't trade multiple 2019 picks for a superstar, but I absolutely would trade one along with a future pick for someone like Brown, who immediately makes this offensive extremely dangerous with Garoppolo at the helm. It gives him two legit superstars to throw to, and then a dangerous route runner in Pettis consistently in 1-on-1 coverage and other solid complimentary weapons in Goodwin, Taylor, Juice, and a variety of running backs. 

[Manny/Patrick]

If we do end up with Brown, I expect Kittle to break his yardage record next year.

[J-ALL-DAY]

1 hour ago, y2lamanaki said:

I disagree that we are far away. Adding a superstar on offense and Jimmy staying healthy is all we really need for a top end offense. That and improving the pass rush would be enough for the playoffs where anything can happen. Most of what we need is depth for overcoming key injuries. But star talent is needed for true contention. And looking around at what appears to be available this year, I think it's very possible. 

And I wouldn't trade multiple 2019 picks for a superstar, but I absolutely would trade one along with a future pick for someone like Brown, who immediately makes this offensive extremely dangerous with Garoppolo at the helm. It gives him two legit superstars to throw to, and then a dangerous route runner in Pettis consistently in 1-on-1 coverage and other solid complimentary weapons in Goodwin, Taylor, Juice, and a variety of running backs. 

If Jimmy G stays healthy all season, is it fair to say this team wins at the very least 7 or 8 games? Trying to be conservative but that is a fair bet right? Okay, so say we are an 8 win level team. What is the next step from that? It's making a run at the playoffs the following season and contending soon. You can go from 8 wins to a SB contender the following season. You are absolutely right, adding AB to what we alrady have and a bit more injury luck, and this becomes a top notch offense. You are talking top 5-7 in the league type of offense. 

Then you try to spend the rest of the money and early draft picks on the defensive end of the ball. You try to make a move for a top level safety in free agency along with getting a good edge rusher like Graham who can still give you two food seasons while drafting somone potentially like Allen/Bosa with the 2nd pick. And while you’re at it, you can still make a move for someone like Barr to play the SAM LB spot. All of a sudden the defense turns into top 12-15 and you absolutely have a chance to contend with a top 5 offense. 

Folks shouldn't let our record and draft positioning fool them into thinking this team is still years away. If we don't go after top talent and stick with signing guys like Williams? Then we will continue to be years away. If you believe Jimmy G will be a good top level QB, then you want to put the right amount of talent around him for the duration of his career. You want to give him a legitimate chance to take us far in the playoffs every single season. 

[rudyZ]

1 hour ago, Manny/Patrick said:

If we do end up with Brown, I expect Kittle to break his yardage record next year.

I expect the opposite. Kittle had to the focus of the offense because everyone else was injured. He deserves a ton of credit for producing while also being the focus of defenses. But if everyone is healthy, passing yards will have to be split between him, Pettis, Taylor/James/Bourne, maybe a new TE2(?), McKinnon (who was supposed to be an integral part of the passing game), and now an elite receiver... sure, Brown will draw double teams away from Kittle, but I doubt he'll get more yards because of it. He was often the only one creating offense this year. Next year, he might not be.

[J-ALL-DAY]

27 minutes ago, rudyZ said:

I expect the opposite. Kittle had to the focus of the offense because everyone else was injured. He deserves a ton of credit for producing while also being the focus of defenses. But if everyone is healthy, passing yards will have to be split between him, Pettis, Taylor/James/Bourne, maybe a new TE2(?), McKinnon (who was supposed to be an integral part of the passing game), and now an elite receiver... sure, Brown will draw double teams away from Kittle, but I doubt he'll get more yards because of it. He was often the only one creating offense this year. Next year, he might not be.

I expect less yards but more TDs from Kittle next season regardless of if we get AB or not. Instead of having 128 targets, Kittle probably gets like 105-110 targets. But our RZ trips should increase and hoping year three in the Shanahan experiment we make major improvements in that area. 

[NcFinest9erFan]

KJ Wright expected to test the market.

[y2lamanaki]

19 hours ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

If Jimmy G stays healthy all season, is it fair to say this team wins at the very least 7 or 8 games?

I think that's even a bar set too low. Arizona (x2), Tampa Bay, and NY Giants games would be expected wins with Garoppolo with ease. Green Bay, San Diego, and Chicago were all close without him. I don't think we'd run the table, but 4-3 would absolutely be the minimum in those games, and disappointing if our most expensive player can't be an improvement by that much over Beathard/Mullens.