Alex Smith leg injury and what it means for the NFC East

[Malfatron]

Just now, Jeezla said:

I hope Dallas takes the division.  Only silver lining to this season will be watching them lose a home playoff game and getting the 20th pick,  while the eagles suck their way into Greedy Williams or Josh Allen or a stud DT.

why do you hate the raiders

 

[Matts4313]

2 hours ago, HTTRG3Dynasty said:

Cowboys should be ashamed of themselves if they lose on Thursday.

 

Colt thumped us last time we were in this situation. Which is weird, because you guys feel like an auto W most years. 

[Jeezla]

5 minutes ago, Malfatron said:

why do you hate the raiders

 

Keep forgetting they don't have a 1st. It's like an extra silver lining every time I remember. Home playoff loss, and no 1st for Dallas! And top 10 pick for the Eagles.

[MKnight82]

24 minutes ago, NFLExpert49 said:

Dude was benched in the playoffs down 17 midway through the 3rd quarter about to get the ball on his opponent's 35 yard line. 

3 time Super Bowl MVP

[///mcompact]

2 hours ago, Jeezla said:

Keep forgetting they don't have a 1st. It's like an extra silver lining every time I remember. Home playoff loss, and no 1st for Dallas! And top 10 pick for the Eagles.

Your continual Cowboy hate won't help Howie's cap situation going into this off-season.  Gonna need some top-level drafting to replenish your aging/depleted roster since his "go-to move" of throwing cash in FA won't be much of an option for the foreseeable future..

[Slateman]

Dallas is in the driver's seat. Getting Cooper has spurred them. McCoy will have short prep time and a patchwork offensive line with no receiving weapons.

[HTTRDynasty]

21 hours ago, Slateman said:

 with no receiving weapons.

[7DnBrnc53]

On 11/19/2018 at 3:07 PM, NFLExpert49 said:

Considering I demolished all of the Montana mythology in that thread (since I actually know what I'm talking about), I'm not sure why you would even bring that up.

But go ahead and tell me again how completing checkdown passes to Roger Craig makes one a candidate for the greatest QB in NFL history. 

Dude, everyone in those 49er offenses was overrated, even Rice (who isn't nearly as good as you said he was on other threads. Guys like Warfield, Swann, and Stallworth were better. Rice wasn't the Randy Moss of the 80's). They were a product of Walsh Cozy Dink pass offense.

[NFLExpert49]

6 hours ago, 7DnBrnc53 said:

Dude, everyone in those 49er offenses was overrated, even Rice (who isn't nearly as good as you said he was on other threads. Guys like Warfield, Swann, and Stallworth were better. Rice wasn't the Randy Moss of the 80's). They were a product of Walsh Cozy Dink pass offense.

No. Rice averaged 18.4 yards per catch from 1985-1989. He was torching people deep and breaking multiple tackles after the catch. Compare what he did to, say, Dwight Clark. 

And there was absolutely nothing any of those guys you named did that Rice didn't do better. Internet revisionist historians revised history to change Rice's 40 time from 4.4 to 4.7, but Swann was truly slower than sap flowing uphill on a winter's eve. The only reason Swann was able to separate deep is the corners of that era were pre-Mel Blount rule and later, pre-Mel Blount rule holdovers; big, plodding corners whose game was mauling receivers. 

Walsh's scheme didn't really inflate WR numbers that dramatically. Now, the RBs as receivers, hell yes. Your point on Roger Craig being a system player was spot on. Virtually every RB who ever played could catch some dumpoff to the flats. 

[Forge]

6 hours ago, 7DnBrnc53 said:

Dude, everyone in those 49er offenses was overrated, even Rice (who isn't nearly as good as you said he was on other threads. Guys like Warfield, Swann, and Stallworth were better. Rice wasn't the Randy Moss of the 80's). They were a product of Walsh Cozy Dink pass offense.

[7DnBrnc53]

2 hours ago, NFLExpert49 said:

No. Rice averaged 18.4 yards per catch from 1985-1989. He was torching people deep and breaking multiple tackles after the catch. Compare what he did to, say, Dwight Clark. 

And there was absolutely nothing any of those guys you named did that Rice didn't do better. Internet revisionist historians revised history to change Rice's 40 time from 4.4 to 4.7, but Swann was truly slower than sap flowing uphill on a winter's eve. The only reason Swann was able to separate deep is the corners of that era were pre-Mel Blount rule and later, pre-Mel Blount rule holdovers; big, plodding corners whose game was mauling receivers. 

Walsh's scheme didn't really inflate WR numbers that dramatically. Now, the RBs as receivers, hell yes. Your point on Roger Craig being a system player was spot on. Virtually every RB who ever played could catch some dumpoff to the flats. 

Swann may have faced some slower CB's, but Rice usually took advantage of CB's playing 10 yards off the ball pretty often. There were times when a LB was the closest player to him when he would start his route.

Here is a good synopsis of Rice's career:

https://web.archive.org/web/20000816100031fw_/http://www.49erhaters.com:80/players.html#jerry

 

[Elky]

6 hours ago, 7DnBrnc53 said:

Dude, everyone in those 49er offenses was overrated, even Rice (who isn't nearly as good as you said he was on other threads. Guys like Warfield, Swann, and Stallworth were better. Rice wasn't the Randy Moss of the 80's). They were a product of Walsh Cozy Dink pass offense.

You weren't even alive for that 49ers dynasty.

[NFLExpert49]

16 minutes ago, 7DnBrnc53 said:

Swann may have faced some slower CB's, but Rice usually took advantage of CB's playing 10 yards off the ball pretty often. There were times when a LB was the closest player to him when he would start his route.

Here is a good synopsis of Rice's career:

https://web.archive.org/web/20000816100031fw_/http://www.49erhaters.com:80/players.html#jerry

 

"Rice must not be touched in order to be effective. Any time Rice is touched, it is called a penalty. Rice would not have survived in the old game of constant physical contact against receivers, all the way down the field. As such, he cannot be said to be the "Best Receiver Ever," because we won't ever know what the real great receivers of all-time would have done if they were as shielded from physical play. Heck, imagine Fifi trying to play without a helmet."

Well, the Mel Blount rule (1977) definitely changed the game, but Rice was clearly the best receiver in his era. And considering Rice was a big receiver who broke tackles after the catch (watch Steve Atwater bounce off him in XXIV) and blocked his *** off, I don't think he would be the receiver most negatively affected by more physical corners.

Also, Rice played the first 12 seasons of his career without missing a game due to injury, and never missed a game due to injury in his 20 year career aside from those from the torn ACL in 1997 (in which he actually returned to play the very same season, which was unprecedented, and as far as I know, has never been done again). His toughness and durability was unreal. And this is a guy who made "RAC" into a stat. This wasn't some coward like Torry Holt or Marvin Harrison. 

 

"When you send 4 or 5 receivers out against the typical, dumb NFL zone defense consisting of 4 DBs, someone must be open every play. It is just a matter of simple reads for a QB to find the right guy. Not only that, the typical defense requires zones where people have huge areas of coverage. Teams like the Packers have shown the easy solution: drop 8 people and smack the receivers off the line of scrimmage, disrupting the "system"."

 

This one is comical because the 49ers ran virtually every play out of the pro set until Mariucci arrived (2 WRs). 

 

"If you watch Rice closely, you will see he rarely runs a pattern where he has to make an actual cut. His patterns are straight lines-- he either slants, streaks, crosses, or seams. Only on occasion does he actually run an out or a post. Rarely does he run the patterns that take actual skill, such as the post-corner, the zig-out, the out-and-up (i.e., 2 and 3 step patterns). This is because he is often finding a soft spot in a zone, not beating a man covering him as popular myth would have you believe. In addition, most of these patterns are run 2 yards downfield where my Grandma could get open."

 

I wouldn't say Rice was the GOAT route runner, as others commonly believe, but in comparison to the primitive routes guys were running in the 1970s, it's no contest. 

 

"The number that gets Whiner fans most excited is the number of touchdowns scored by Rice. The reason Rice has so many touchdowns is not because he is the greatest receiver ever; rather, it is because the 49ers choose to pass the ball to score a two-yard touchdown because they can't punch it in with a running back like almost every other team. In short, many of Rice's TDs are the product of opportunity that other great receivers throughout history have not enjoyed. Also, NFL tackling has deteriorated considerably and this point is magnified when combined with the stupid defenses played against the 49ers."

 

Rice scored more touchdowns from longer distances than anybody else. Now, during the Shanahan years, he did receive quite a few scheme-created square out touchdowns inside the 10, but over the course of his career, it's pretty clear that he was - up until the likes of Moss and Owens could rival him - hands down the greatest threat to get it to the endzone from 20+ yards out to have ever played the position. Since the merger, anyway.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RiceJe00/touchdowns/

108 TDs of 20+ yards in his career.

 

"This is an offensive era in football. Changes in rules and offensive philosophy over the past couple of decades means that it is more important than ever to remember that when you compare players from different eras, you must take into account the state of the game. Today, running backs, receivers, and quarterbacks are doing things never done before. For example, before 1990, only 3 players had ever caught 100 passes in a season (and Rice wasn't one of them). Since, it's been done over 20 times.

This is important since 49er fans primarily point to the stats to "prove" Rice is the best of all-time. But if you think about it, Rice gets to play in the best of times for receivers, and that benefit needs to be considered when analyzing Rice. Who knows what some of the past greats could have done in today's wide open game? A receiving yard in 1950 definitely has a different worth than a yard today."

Which is why you look at things like "black ink," rather than just comparing the numbers out of context. Compare them to their peers and then players from other eras to their peers.

And of course, you have to consider circumstances that affected who their peers were, and whether some of their most talented peers weren't even allowed to play in the league with them, as was the case with the likes of Don Hutson. 

[CP3MVP]

The cowboys will win the division at 9-7

[7DnBrnc53]

20 hours ago, Elky said:

You weren't even alive for that 49ers dynasty.

I certainly was. They weren't as great as everyone thinks. Teams like the 89 49ers and 86 Giants get overrated because they won titles in the Super Bowl Myth era (84-86). That was a time where overrated NFC teams were beating up on sorry AFC teams.

20 hours ago, NFLExpert49 said:

Well, the Mel Blount rule (1977) definitely changed the game, but Rice was clearly the best receiver in his era. And considering Rice was a big receiver who broke tackles after the catch (watch Steve Atwater bounce off him in XXIV) and blocked his *** off, I don't think he would be the receiver most negatively affected by more physical corners.

Also, Rice played the first 12 seasons of his career without missing a game due to injury, and never missed a game due to injury in his 20 year career aside from those from the torn ACL in 1997 (in which he actually returned to play the very same season, which was unprecedented, and as far as I know, has never been done again). His toughness and durability was unreal. And this is a guy who made "RAC" into a stat. This wasn't some coward like Torry Holt or Marvin Harrison. 

I agree with you about Harrison. Marvin (and Indy's bad special teams) don't get enough blame for Indy's postseason short-comings from 1999-2010.

However, Rice didn't get hurt because he didn't take as many hits as people think he did (look at RiceWatch on that 49er hater site for a sample). The best and toughest WR of the late-80's and early-90's was Sterling Sharpe, not Rice.

20 hours ago, NFLExpert49 said:

This one is comical because the 49ers ran virtually every play out of the pro set until Mariucci arrived (2 WRs). 

They are talking about WR's, TE's, and RB's, not just WR's.

20 hours ago, NFLExpert49 said:

Rice scored more touchdowns from longer distances than anybody else. Now, during the Shanahan years, he did receive quite a few scheme-created square out touchdowns inside the 10, but over the course of his career, it's pretty clear that he was - up until the likes of Moss and Owens could rival him - hands down the greatest threat to get it to the endzone from 20+ yards out to have ever played the position. Since the merger, anyway.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RiceJe00/touchdowns/

108 TDs of 20+ yards in his career.

 

That may be true, but a lot of his long TD catches came from catching a short pass against a zone defense and taking it all the way.