The Mass Exodus (cuts to 53)

[oakdb36]

11 minutes ago, Silver&Black88 said:

 Maybe Lewis was competing against Cowser at the same position like a few other posters said, but is no one else super concerned with our pass rusher depth?

I think a backup has to be able to play SAM and LEO at this position. That's what Calhoun did last season. Anyway, i'm concerned with our lack of depth. Why are we still hanging onto McGill when he has shown nothing 3 years into his career? Do we need that many DBs? I'd have easily kept Lewis over McGill.

[NightTrainLane]

1 hour ago, oakdb36 said:

I think a backup has to be able to play SAM and LEO at this position. That's what Calhoun did last season. Anyway, i'm concerned with our lack of depth. Why are we still hanging onto McGill when he has shown nothing 3 years into his career? Do we need that many DBs? I'd have easily kept Lewis over McGill.

McGill has value to the team as a safety and on special teams plus he is hurt so is probably a place holder (along with Kirkland) in case we find someone on waivers we wanna add. Lewis is a practice squad guy. He may develop into contributor but he isn't there yet as every team in the league has shown by none wanting him for their 53. 

[Blazer026]

Haven't been able to watch must this preseason, but I assume Calhoun didn't show too much. Disappointed by that, liked the pick at the time.

[Silver&Black88]

2 hours ago, oakdb36 said:

I think a backup has to be able to play SAM and LEO at this position. That's what Calhoun did last season. Anyway, i'm concerned with our lack of depth. Why are we still hanging onto McGill when he has shown nothing 3 years into his career? Do we need that many DBs? I'd have easily kept Lewis over McGill.

Agree. Hell, Cowser can do both. I'm fine with one depth guy not being versatile for once. Yeah McGill is pretty worthless. Ok great. He plays STs. Surely we can find someone who can do that AND contribute elsewhere. Even like KJ Brent or something

[Rich7sena]

3 minutes ago, Silver&Black88 said:

Agree. Hell, Cowser can do both. I'm fine with one depth guy not being versatile for once. Yeah McGill is pretty worthless. Ok great. He plays STs. Surely we can find someone who can do that AND contribute elsewhere. Even like KJ Brent or something

Honestly, there isn't much difference in either edge position. Both are essentially rush roles except Irvin drops back a little more. In nickel (aka 60%+ of the time) it's a fulltime rush position.

[BigD1123]

Calhoun got signed to the ps

[RaiderX]

34 minutes ago, BigD1123 said:

Calhoun got signed to the ps

Was on IR last season, so he had the PS eligibility. Glad they kept him.

[raidr4life]

1 hour ago, RaiderX said:

Was on IR last season, so he had the PS eligibility. Glad they kept him.

Just saving face for Lewis signing elsewhere.

[NightTrainLane]

1 hour ago, raidr4life said:

Just saving face for Lewis signing elsewhere.

Haha

[Darbsk]

9 hours ago, Silver&Black88 said:

I mean.  We have 3 edge rushers on our roster now.  3.  Our only rusher after our starters is James Cowser.  Not to be rude but please tell me how waving Lewis was the right move.  Sure, other teams made cuts too but Lewis was a gamer.  He might not pan out to be anything at all, but we need more than the rushers we have.  And Calhoun wasn't good enough either.  Maybe Lewis was competing against Cowser at the same position like a few other posters said, but is no one else super concerned with our pass rusher depth?  It feels like we got weaker after preseason at CB, LB, and now Edge Rusher too.  At least the overall impression is. And its not like we were a good defense to begin with.

 

BP is right.  Barring a surprise, we're probably the new Saints.

 

I too am a little concerned. I'd always go with the guy who showed what he can do on the field of play rather than in shorts or in the weight room. The thing I find confusing is that we cut Lewis who had shown something in all the games and actually looked good in most and kept guys who had shown very little at positions of less value - edge rusher is a hugely valuable position in today's NFL and while I really like Cowser as a rotation guy we absolutely need to keep our two stars Mack and Irvin fresh.

Now, I'm not saying that Lewis is irreplaceable, far from it, or that it is a terrible move as we may well bring someone in who is better but at the time, based on the information we have it seems a very strange cut when compared to the players we have kept........ it's much easier to find a ST contributor than it is a rusher who can get to the QB. Also, if we kept him on the roster and a better player was cut we could always swap them out, just seems strange to have no-one there and just hope someone gets cut to bring in...........

[mct288]

16 hours ago, Silver&Black88 said:

I mean.  We have 3 edge rushers on our roster now.  3.  Our only rusher after our starters is James Cowser.  Not to be rude but please tell me how waving Lewis was the right move.  Sure, other teams made cuts too but Lewis was a gamer.  He might not pan out to be anything at all, but we need more than the rushers we have.  And Calhoun wasn't good enough either.  Maybe Lewis was competing against Cowser at the same position like a few other posters said, but is no one else super concerned with our pass rusher depth?  It feels like we got weaker after preseason at CB, LB, and now Edge Rusher too.  At least the overall impression is. And its not like we were a good defense to begin with.

 

BP is right.  Barring a surprise, we're probably the new Saints.

Yeah, I definitely think we can be the new Saints. The point I was emphasizing from BP was  not denying that kid showed out in games, but that the coaches did see him every day in camp, and we didn't hear anything about him except the splash plays he made in the games. Credit to the dude - he got himself a job (Texans PS) by proving it on the field - but a few splash plays in preseason does not necessarily tell the entire story. Nor does it mean that it will actually translate to real NFL games. The staff absolutely could have made a mistake with him, but a few plays in the second half of preseason games is really a small piece of what goes into evaluation. 

And yes - I am absolutely worried about our pass rushing depth and overall D. 3 edge rushers is not enough, to be certain. I just kinda feel that if we were going with a LaTroy Lewis type, then it wasn't going to be pretty anyway. 

[holyghost]

I think it needs to be clarified again that while we have 3 edge rushers in Mack, Irvin and Cowser - we have 3 other players who we will more than likely see rushing from the outside. Ward, Autry and Edwards. So we do have 6 guys as options, it doesn't mean they're good ones but they are options.

[mct288]

1 minute ago, holyghost said:

I think it needs to be clarified again that while we have 3 edge rushers in Mack, Irvin and Cowser - we have 3 other players who we will more than likely see rushing from the outside. Ward, Autry and Edwards. So we do have 6 guys as options, it doesn't mean they're good ones but they are options.

Yeah, I was kinda just thinking that too. Also, if it comes down to the end of the roster options, the coaches would have to try and scheme pressure anyway. This team is weak and shallow on the defensive side for sure though.

[holyghost]

12 minutes ago, mct288 said:

Yeah, I was kinda just thinking that too. Also, if it comes down to the end of the roster options, the coaches would have to try and scheme pressure anyway. This team is weak and shallow on the defensive side for sure though.

A result of an utter collision of issues. It's not just one fix. Drafted players haven't worked out as of yet, signed players haven't worked out as expected, defensive philosophy and the players' fit in it is shaky and confused, coordinator is questionable at best, coaching on that side of the ball is questionable as well. All of those problems are present, not just one. Beyond the luck we fell into with Mack and the solid signing of Irvin, the rest of all the factors that go into a defense aren't going particularly well. 

We can only hope our 2nd and 3rd year guys start showing something and the rookies get up to speed real quick. And sad to say, Norton is moved out soon. And Del Rio hands the full reigns and control of the D and it's staff to someone of genuine ability with a clearer plan. 

Can anyone say what D we are running, or what we are trying to build on that side? Identity is a big big problem too. As is MLB. Having noone to coordinate things on the field in consistent and skilled fashion is hurting things, alot. When players are out of position, the wrong D is lined up for a situation, noone follows or adjusts to motion, and so on.. Those are times when a good MLB can help alot. Defensive leader on the field. Those things are happening all the time. A rookie like Lee or a new guy like James doesn't have the knowledge and their feet under them enough to be able to coordinate and adjust their defense in real time. 

[Darbsk]

37 minutes ago, holyghost said:

A result of an utter collision of issues. It's not just one fix. Drafted players haven't worked out as of yet, signed players haven't worked out as expected, defensive philosophy and the players' fit in it is shaky and confused, coordinator is questionable at best, coaching on that side of the ball is questionable as well. All of those problems are present, not just one. Beyond the luck we fell into with Mack and the solid signing of Irvin, the rest of all the factors that go into a defense aren't going particularly well. 

We can only hope our 2nd and 3rd year guys start showing something and the rookies get up to speed real quick. And sad to say, Norton is moved out soon. And Del Rio hands the full reigns and control of the D and it's staff to someone of genuine ability with a clearer plan. 

Can anyone say what D we are running, or what we are trying to build on that side? Identity is a big big problem too. As is MLB. Having noone to coordinate things on the field in consistent and skilled fashion is hurting things, alot. When players are out of position, the wrong D is lined up for a situation, noone follows or adjusts to motion, and so on.. Those are times when a good MLB can help alot. Defensive leader on the field. Those things are happening all the time. A rookie like Lee or a new guy like James doesn't have the knowledge and their feet under them enough to be able to coordinate and adjust their defense in real time. 

 

This is a very good point Holyghost and in stark contracts to our Offence. With the O we know we have a big, mean OL and want to run the ball down peoples throats, combined with some deep threats and plenty of screens passes. We have an identity and we are bringing in guys who fit the scheme like the big OL maulers and the power back in Lynch. It's been a recurring theme on D that the 'scheme' is a mish-mash of the Seahawks 4-3 but also with elements of a 3-4 and previous JDR defences with 2 very large run stuffer DTs in the middle also previously used. To be frank, I think we've probably spent too much time trying to be 'versatile' and multi-faceted and are now faced with a D that doesn't really have an identity at all.

I for one would much rather we played a simple 3-4 defence fast and accurately than try to play 2 or 3 different versatile schemes poorly which is what we seem to be doing, I don't know for sure that this is a cause but it seems likely that the lack of cohesion and blown assignments could also be in part down to playing such a varied and versatile system, especially with a bulk of young players and rookies who are trying to learn maybe too much too soon.