GDT Week 1, Packers @ Bears

[WindyCity]

1 minute ago, G08 said:

The radio suggested that this could be Marc Trestman part deux... I highly doubt this is the case. Nagy got his balls ripped off and handed to him -- first time he's really had this type of adversity in his head coaching career -- I'm curious to see if/how he adjusts.

He embarrassed himself yesterday

-team was not ready to play
-his game plan got punked
-his play calling was horrendously cute
-abandoned the run
-horrible situational decision making

It was about as bad as you can coach a game.

[G08]

@WindyCityagreed on all accounts. It was weird hearing Mitch AND Nagy both say, independently, that they were crisp and sharp in practice. That's Trestman talk (dur, we had a great week of practice). Yeah? Well then why did you crap your pants on national television against our arch rivals? Pathetic on all accounts.

[WindyCity]

Just now, G08 said:

@WindyCityagreed on all accounts. It was weird hearing Mitch AND Nagy both say, independently, that they were crisp and sharp in practice. That's Trestman talk (dur, we had a great week of practice). Yeah? Well then why did you crap your pants on national television against our arch rivals? Pathetic on all accounts.

Does anyone think that Mitch can still be a top 10 QB in the NFL? How much "experience" does he need before we get to the point where he is what he is?

If Mitch is going to stagnate at being an inconsistent and average overall QB then it really does not matter what is happening around him. The only way a guy like that wins a Super Bowl is if he catches fire at the perfect time and that rarely happens.

I lost a ton of faith in both Nagy and Trubisky yesterday. I had more in Nagy to start, but both to me got exposed last night.

Every piece of evidence that Trubisky is not "the guy" is just soul crushing considering where this team is and what we invested in him.

[Nads786]

3 minutes ago, WindyCity said:

Does anyone think that Mitch can still be a top 10 QB in the NFL? How much "experience" does he need before we get to the point where he is what he is?

If Mitch is going to stagnate at being an inconsistent and average overall QB then it really does not matter what is happening around him. The only way a guy like that wins a Super Bowl is if he catches fire at the perfect time and that rarely happens.

I lost a ton of faith in both Nagy and Trubisky yesterday. I had more in Nagy to start, but both to me got exposed last night.

Every piece of evidence that Trubisky is not "the guy" is just soul crushing considering where this team is and what we invested in him.

Bolded for emphasis. I was stuck on Cutler for far too long before I moved on from him. I was not planning on making the same mistake with the next QB. It really is soul crushing. I felt by the third quarter I didn't really care about the outcome from the game. Even if we won - it would only prove that we did it with razor thin margins. If you don't have a QB you really don't have a shot of sustainability. 

[beardown3231]

I remember when I compared some of Nagy's actions and words last year to Trestman and I was torn apart. Now they lose a game and everyone's on that bandwagon now? Week 1 last year was worse.

[topwop1]

4 minutes ago, WindyCity said:

Does anyone think that Mitch can still be a top 10 QB in the NFL? How much "experience" does he need before we get to the point where he is what he is?

If Mitch is going to stagnate at being an inconsistent and average overall QB then it really does not matter what is happening around him. The only way a guy like that wins a Super Bowl is if he catches fire at the perfect time and that rarely happens.

I lost a ton of faith in both Nagy and Trubisky yesterday. I had more in Nagy to start, but both to me got exposed last night.

Every piece of evidence that Trubisky is not "the guy" is just soul crushing considering where this team is and what we invested in him.

There were multiple reports too out of training camp this summer from the Bears beat guys of the opinion that Mitch had a pretty uneven and average camp.  Don't know if that's partly due to going up against one of the best defenses in the NFL every day but it is certainly noteworthy and raises further doubts about him.

That said I think he should be given this full season to fairly assess his body of work and see where both he and the team is at then. Can't really expect SB or bust this year but certainly in the next couple of seasons while this defense is still dominant.  If there is not major improvement by year end then I think we can all expect them to put pressure on him heading into next season by bringing in an established veteran because I believe they have to make a decision on his 5th year option by next offseason.

[WindyCity]

I refuse to do what I did with Cutler and make every excuse I could find to justify why he was not good.

[WindyCity]

Just now, topwop1 said:

There were multiple reports too out of training camp this summer from the Bears beat guys of the opinion that Mitch had a pretty uneven and average camp.  Don't know if that's partly due to going up against one of the best defenses in the NFL every day but it is certainly noteworthy and raises further doubts about him.

That said I think he should be given this full season to fairly assess his body of work and see where both he and the team is at then. Can't really expect SB or bust this year but certainly in the next couple of seasons while this defense is still dominant.  If there is not major improvement by year end then I think we can all expect them to put pressure on him heading into next season by bringing in an established veteran because I believe they have to make a decision on his 5th year option by next offseason.

He is going to get this season, but I am not seeing it, and at this point I think it is less likely that we are going to see it.

[topwop1]

2 minutes ago, WindyCity said:

He is going to get this season, but I am not seeing it, and at this point I think it is less likely that we are going to see it.

We shall see.  However Nagy needs to start taking more ownership of the situation and putting Mitch in the right position to succeed.

I don't know how much influence Helfrich has but both he and Nagy need to stop over complicating things and getting too fancy because it is not working.

[WindyCity]

15 minutes ago, topwop1 said:

We shall see.  However Nagy needs to start taking more ownership of the situation and putting Mitch in the right position to succeed.

I don't know how much influence Helfrich has but both he and Nagy need to stop over complicating things and getting too fancy because it is not working.

What if the position Mitch succeeds in are too limited? Like a hitter who can only hit fastballs.

[abstract_thought]

1 hour ago, WindyCity said:

What if the position Mitch succeeds in are too limited? Like a hitter who can only hit fastballs.

I sometimes wonder if the gadget plays and gimmicks are what Nagy wants to run or what he feels he needs to run given Mitch's limitations.

[soulman]

4 hours ago, WindyCity said:

That was Nagy's worst game by a wide margin. Horrible decision making and situational football.

True but IMNSHO he's having too many bad games as a play caller.  Last night was the 9th time in 18 games the Bears have failed to score at least 20 points.  I dunno about you but this is becoming like a deja vu of the Bears under Lovie except this team has tons more offensive talent that is somehow being mishandled.

With week after week to have nothing to do EXCEPT become as precision as possible as a unit AND prepare for any scheme GB through at them the entire unit as a team (because that's how we roll), Nagy and his offensive staff simply screwed the pooch again on National TV in a signature game celebrating the 100th Anniversary of the franchise.

If the ghost of Halas wasn't barfing by the 3rd Q I sure as hell was.

The ending had already been written by then due primarily to the offense showing no ability whatsoever to adjust to GB's schemes.  Did Dowell Loggains get rehired and no one told us?

I realize there isn't much Nagy can say but in truth unacceptable is kinda on the light side for me and what's worse is I didn't hear anything about a recognition of how they f'd up so badly only that they'd fix it.

Fix what?  The roof, the plumbing, a burned out light bulb or a QB who does not seem to handle pressure well at time when he's in the spotlight. He may have lacked Grossman's "deer in the headlights" look but the rest was somewhat the same.  So far my major critique of him is the kid does not know how to relax and just play football instinctively the way any good QB can do.

If that CAN'T be fixed we can probably stop worrying about the cost of an extension 'cause there ain't gonna be one.

My other critique is more like a suggestion.  Something to try.  Nagy needs to take off his headset, give it to Helfrich for a game or two, and simply watch and coach the game as a HC should do.  I believe he's so wrapped up in his next play call he loses the big picture and maybe even down and distance.  Many of his play calls indicate that.

What's worse is if Nagy thinks he had it tough against GB last night wait'll he gets to Denver.

Edited September 6, 2019 by soulman

[dafreak]

2 hours ago, soulman said:

True but IMNSHO he's having too many bad games as a play caller.  Last night was the 9th time in 18 games the Bears have failed to score at least 20 points.  I dunno about you but this is becoming like a deja vu of the Bears under Lovie except this team has tons more offensive talent that is somehow being mishandled.

With week after week to have nothing to do EXCEPT become as precision as possible as a unit AND prepare for any scheme GB through at them the entire unit as a team (because that's how we roll), Nagy and his offensive staff simply screwed the pooch again on National TV in a signature game celebrating the 100th Anniversary of the franchise.

If the ghost of Halas wasn't barfing by the 3rd Q I sure as hell was.

The ending had already been written by then due primarily to the offense showing no ability whatsoever to adjust to GB's schemes.  Did Dowell Loggains get rehired and no one told us?

I realize there isn't much Nagy can say but in truth unacceptable is kinda on the light side for me and what's worse is I didn't hear anything about a recognition of how they f'd up so badly only that they'd fix it.

Fix what?  The roof, the plumbing, a burned out light bulb or a QB who does not seem to handle pressure well at time when he's in the spotlight. He may have lacked Grossman's "deer in the headlights" look but the rest was somewhat the same.  So far my major critique of him is the kid does not know how to relax and just play football instinctively the way any good QB can do.

If that CAN'T be fixed we can probably stop worrying about the cost of an extension 'cause there ain't gonna be one.

My other critique is more like a suggestion.  Something to try.  Nagy needs to take off his headset, give it to Helfrich for a game or two, and simply watch and coach the game as a HC should do.  I believe he's so wrapped up in his next play call he loses the big picture and maybe even down and distance.  Many of his play calls indicate that.

What's worse is if Nagy thinks he had it tough against GB last night wait'll he gets to Denver.

The bolded text jumped out at me. Mitch also just seems to lack confidence. When you listen to him talk its always about trusting the system, getting better, but there is nothing he says that says "i'm confident and going to kick some *** this year". Its all just lame, almost immature, "trying to get better" responses. His teammates all say they see a huge difference, the local media and fan base are all in but outside of Chicago he has pretty much been labeled a bust.

Edited September 7, 2019 by dafreak

[JAF-N72EX]

22 hours ago, Superman(DH23) said:

Please point this out on the all 22, I dare you.  I bet we can even get a volunteer to upload the film from gamepass like@JustAnotherFan

I most def will be posting it and I can't wait for it to be released tomorrow either. Because after going through the TV version of the game again today and taking meticulous notes on certain things I'm gonna also include a very lengthy, detailed, "FU" write-up to both Nagy and the entire offense about how pissed off I am at how awful they really were last night.

Along with a couple of players on defense as well--although watching the all-22, where I can see much more of what was going, may end up being better than they looked on TV.

Hell, I have so much I wanna get off my chest that it may seriously take me 3 days to put together. No joke.

Edited September 7, 2019 by JustAnotherFan

[soulman]

5 hours ago, dafreak said:

The bolded text jumped out at me. Mitch also just seems to lack confidence. When you listen to him talk its always about trusting the system, getting better, but there is nothing he says that says "i'm confident and going to kick some *** this year". Its all just lame, almost immature, "trying to get better" responses. His teammates all say they see a huge difference, the local media and fan base are all in but outside of Chicago he has pretty much been labeled a bust.

You nailed it.  While we're all hearing really virtuous statements from everyone in reality in the job of QB in the NFL is not much different than that of a machinist in a factory or the checker at your super market.

Either you truly know what you're doing and have the confidence to do it well or you're some level of a putz.  Mitch can talk all he likes but on the field in the spotlight is where we all find out whether or not he can do his job.

It's great that Nagy has these guys all pumped up and believing in themselves but all too obvious one is really not in that same category so far.  I'm now thinking most of those critiques written about how he looked in camp were not inaccurate at all.

Nagy and Helfrich tossed the rest of the playbook at him and he's struggling to execute it.  He knows it in his head and recite it back to you verbatim but right now he can't operate it when it counts.  He was at a loss to even improvise against GB but Rodgers wasn't.

Last season we got to see that Mitch did well as long as he was working off scripted plays but as soon as he had to go "off script" he began to stumble.  My take is he depends on Nagy far too much and not his own instincts.

It's like he wants to please by being obsessed and a perfectionist but that's not helping because that not how the game is played. The other guys aren't gonna play as you were told they were.  They're gonna do something unpredictable like GB did and you have to know how to adapt and take advantage of it.  YOU, the QB, not your coaches.  You need to improvise.

Right now I see Mitch as being very robotic and way too tethered to Nagy, Helfrich, and Rags.  He's like that star pupil we all went to school with whom all the teachers loved.  Honor Roll and Class Valedictorian.  A great and disciplined book learner but lacking any ability to learn on their own without being taught.  That type typically lacks the instincts to learn on their own from experience alone.

I believe that may be what we have here because all of the physical abilities are there.  Just not the mental ones.  If anything he now has an even bigger hump to climb over.  He just went out and shat the bed proving many of his critics right and Nagy's first step has to be working on Mitch's head not his playcalling.  He needs to do that too but what good will it do if Mitch can't execute?

My only thought is until this kid truly matures personally (in his mind and the way he learns) he's not gonna mature as a good NFL QB. 

Edited September 7, 2019 by soulman