Was Saquon the right pick for Giants?

[Bolts223]

8 hours ago, Totty said:

You pick a generational talent anywhere.  

E

 

8 hours ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

I'm as big a fan of Saquon as anyone else, but "generational talent" is...a stretch. What does he do that prime AP or Zeke not do? He's "the next big thing" at RB, but generational talent is idk. Unless we're specifically talking about his leg strength, because that is rivaled only by MJD.

But regarding the pick - it was the wrong pick then and it's still the wrong pick now. However, if the Giants' plan was to pick BPA and then go QB the next year, who am I to say otherwise? They had a plan, and so far it's failed. The strategy was right from that standpoint (BPA and then QB) since they didn't like Rosen/Darnold/Allen (and I agree with that assessment tbh). The issue is that Daniel Jones is not a good QB, either. You might as well have taken Josh Allen.

EDIT: I suppose it comes down to whether you think the Giants would be better with Saquon + Daniel Jones, or Allen/Rosen/Darnold + (idk who would be a comp here). That's an interesting debate.

EDIT2: Players still on the board when Giants picked at #6:

• Dwayne Haskins
• Ed Oliver
• Josh Allen (DE)
• Devin Bush
• Rashan Gary
• Christian Wilkins
• Brian Burns
• Jeffrey Simmons

So just for gigs let's say the Giants' plan was to go QB here this year. Are they a better team with Haskins + Saquon, or Josh Allen + Ed Oliver?

I mean to be fair - I think at this point in time I would take Josh Allen over Saquon. 

Barkley is obviously better at his position than Josh Allen is at his, but you can have a good rushing offense without any big names or players. Josh Allen so far has shown that he is franchise QB material if he keeps it up.

Edited December 13, 2019 by Bolts223

[DannyB]

7 hours ago, Danger said:

SaQuon Barkley had roughly double the number broken tackles of any other RB in the league his rookie year.

By the way Zeke had the best OLine in football his rookie year, meanwhile SaQuon had a bottom 3-5 Offensive Line. Context.

I know Zeke's was good, I'll take your word for it that Saquon's wasn't good. I'm just saying I think sometimes people get way too wrapped up in these types of things (context, talent around them), when it rarely actually works out that way. Giants could probably draft and develop their way into a top 10 O-line, and I bet Saquon's production still basically tops out at around 2k YFS. Couple hundred more here, couple hundred less there, and TD numbers fluctuate more anyways.

I wish I could remember the specific argument, so I might get something about this mistaken, but someone a year or two ago was talking about how if Antonio Brown had a different QB throwing to him his whole career or something, that he would average like 25 or 30 TDs per season or some crap like that. Gah! I wish I could remember now. Anyways, yeah. Context matters, but I think sometimes it gets overestimated.

[DannyB]

7 hours ago, Kip Smithers said:

This is his second year in the league. I’m talking as a talent, not his resume or his career. I never said his production is rare. I said what he did, given the circumstances was something that few backs could do, which is an indication of generational. Given what he was running behind,  he was arguably the best RB in the league as a rookie which is rare.

I guess I don't think it's as rare as you do, or as unbelievable. The RB position tends to translate very easily to the pro game, so if you're in the right circumstances where you're given the keys to be the lead dog in the backfield, it makes sense that you'd come out hard (and being picked highly would probably put you in this position). A lot of backs over the years have hit the ground running either as rookies because they were handed the keys immediately, or once they flashed as rookies or in their second year, and showed the team what they can do, put up HUGE seasons. It's not a position with a gradual production curve.

That said, I feel like you guys think I'm knocking Saquon more than I'm intending to. He's absolutely nasty, and probably the best overall RB in the league right now.

[mission27]

13 hours ago, Danger said:

Yes. And he is. Still has the highest potential in the entire NFL at the position.

The only question really comes in at

SaQuon or Darnold/Allen/Rosen

Rosen it's obvious they made the right choice. Allen and Darnold remains to be seen. It's not like Daniel Jones has performed horribly either.

Yeah a lot of people are saying they took him “over Lamar Jackson” which is true, but Lamar wasn’t on anyone’s radar at the 2nd pick 

So it was probably SaQuon vs. Sam Darnold / Josh Allen

I probably would’ve taken Darnold, I think Darnold was the right pick, but who knows... Daniel Jones isn’t too bad to your point, we’ll see

[sammymvpknight]

Coming this Christmas season, from the creators of Alvin Kamara is no longer an elite RB. A tale of another running back playing through injury and his struggles of meeting fantasy football player's expectations. Watch as Saquon gets an injury that typically results in a person being in a walking boot for 6-8 weeks and fights his way back on the field to help his team. "Saquon Barkley 2019"

[Gmen]

My early reaction after watching him last year was, yes absolutely. He hasn’t been the same this year though, and whether he’ll admit it or not, I think it has to do with injuries. The lack to run blocking and offensive creativity doesn’t help. 

After this season, my answer is no Barkley was not the right pick - Lamar Jackson was. At least the Giants weren’t the only ones to botch that one, eh? 

[Nabbs4u]

14 hours ago, Bearerofnews said:

I might be wrong. But havent you already crowned Mahomes?

Yes you are wrong! 

[RamblinMan99]

16 hours ago, DerbyRam said:

Todd Gurley isn't so great?

The guy has won offensive rookie of the year, has won offensive player of the year, has 64 touchdowns in 74 games and over 7,500 all purpose yards (averaging over 100 yards a game over a course of 5 seasons). He has comfortably had the best career so far from any player of that draft and it really isn't even close.

He's not doing so great this year.  

He's not even in the top 10 rushing this season after 13 games.  Barely averaging 4 yards a carry too.  

Lamar Jackson literally has 400 more rushing yards than Gurley does, and he's a quarterback.  

Gurley's just not consistent.  Even Phillip Lindsay for Denver.  Has only 3 more rushing attempts for the season, and has 100 more yards than Gurley.  

[BleedTheClock]

On 12/12/2019 at 3:59 PM, Danger said:

He also returns kicks for TDs, has thrown a TD. Oh yeah and he ran a 4.40 flat (when he stumbled)

He's just overall more athletic, more quick, and more agile than Zeke. Zeke is a better runner in traffic, won't deny that. But Barkley does so many things Zeke only dreams of.

I agree.

 

Adrian Peterson was my favorite college player of all-time. Favorite prospect of all-time. But Saquon can do way more in the passing game and is more dynamic with his short burst.

Put me in the camp of Saquon being a generational talent.

[BleedTheClock]

On 12/12/2019 at 3:59 PM, Danger said:

He also returns kicks for TDs, has thrown a TD. Oh yeah and he ran a 4.40 flat (when he stumbled)

He's just overall more athletic, more quick, and more agile than Zeke. Zeke is a better runner in traffic, won't deny that. But Barkley does so many things Zeke only dreams of.

I agree.

 

Adrian Peterson was my favorite college player of all-time. Favorite prospect of all-time. But Saquon can do way more in the passing game and is more dynamic with his short burst.

Put me in the camp of Saquon being a generational talent.

[RamblinMan99]

4 hours ago, BleedTheClock said:

I agree.

 

Adrian Peterson was my favorite college player of all-time. Favorite prospect of all-time. But Saquon can do way more in the passing game and is more dynamic with his short burst.

Put me in the camp of Saquon being a generational talent.

The league is very different in terms of rushing the football now than it was when Adrian Peterson was in his prime.  

With running backs expected be more of carrier/receiver hybrids nowadays,  Christian McCaffery is probably more comparable to vintage AP in terms of overall performance.  

Edited December 14, 2019 by RamblinMan99

[m haynes]

On 12/12/2019 at 8:17 PM, BACK2MACKSACK said:

Personally, my criteria for a 1st round RB is extremely strict and the only way I would pick one that early is if I'm confident he'll be a perennial All-Pro/bonafide HOFer. There's a certain caliber player that I would want from a top 10 pick, top 20 pick, and then a late first round pick.

Even though people want to look at Nelson, interior offensive lineman usually aren't drafted as high as second overall very often. Without looking at hindsight, you can say that drafting an OG #2 overall is a reach. It's the OTs that are usually taken this high. It just so happens that Nelson is a terrific player which means no one will question this pick. Also, the Colts were in a unique situation of actually having a franchise QB and had a major need being fixing their O-Line to keep him healthy.

So if you go by positional value, Bradley Chubb might have been the only choice if they didn't like the crop of QBs available there.

If you want to look at the POV of taking the BPA, I would say that it was a strong pick. Barkley is a very special player and to get these stats he's putting in work considering the defensive attention he is attracting. Each game defensive coordinators top priority is stopping Barkley and for me it's impressive seeing him putting up the numbers he has.

 

Quote

you can say that drafting an OG #2 overall is a reach.

You are 99% correct but their are exception to the rule. IMO we're talking Larry Allen ,John Hannah if Nelson career plays out as it started. He has a good chance playing 10/12 years or more !  Nelson is not just a guard. He a game changer. Ex You run behind him short yardage and goal line your chances great he will move the pile.

Side note

I see the same thing with Tyler Biadasz. He not just a center he a game changer. The Colts should run up to the podium if he still on the board and they would never have to worry about short yardage and goal line again!

[Elky]

Of course he was the right pick. He was the best player available. With the rookie wage scale, there is really no such thing as a reach anymore. I'm sure New York would have preferred to trade down, but what are they supposed to do if there are no takers?

Edited December 15, 2019 by Elky

[Split the Sticks]

The league is now a pass-pass league and has been for a long while. Why use your 1st for a RB even if he is a generational talent?
You certainly would not use your 1st rounder on a punter, even if he was a Ray Guy. And people have to get used to the idea that the RB should now be viewed in a similar fashion, although to a lesser degree.

You pay a ton of money now for a great RB on his 2nd contract. Not worth it. I say, keep getting the RB's from the draft and save the $$ for other more important positions.

[Fresh Prince]

Coming from an Ohio State fan and who loves seek. Barkley is the better RB.

Also AP was the generational talent.