Matts4313 Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Joe_is_the_best said: You wanna compare coaches winning % in their first 4 years (hired in 2014)? - Bill O'Brien - 48.4% (kept job) - Mike Zimmer - 60.9% (kept job) - Jim Caldwell - 60% (fired) - Mike Pettine - 34.6% (fired after 2 years) - Jay Gruden - 47.5% (kept job, fired 5 games into year 6) - Lovie Smith - 25% (fired after 2 years) Well, you get the picture, I hope. Do only HCs count from 2014? Quote Bert Bell. Record: 10-46-2. Winning Percentage: .179. Hue Jackson. Record: 11-44-1. Winning Percentage: .205. ... Steve Spagnuolo. Record: 11-41. Winning Percentage: .212. ... Gus Bradley. Record: 14-48. Winning Percentage: .226. ... David Shula. Record: 19-52. ... Jimmy Phelan. Record: 13-35-2. ... Dave McGinnis. Record: 17-40. ... Joe Bugel. Record: 24-56. ... ^^^ those coaches are awful https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1443665-50-worst-nfl-head-coaches-of-all-time ^^^ those coaches are terrible https://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/ ^^^ There are 115 HC's in NFL history with worse win %. 98 with a better win %. Thats almost right in the middle. Thats what we call "mediocre" Quote aw·ful 1. very bad or unpleasant. "the place smelled awful" used to emphasize the extent of something, especially something unpleasant or negative. "I've made an awful fool of myself" Quote adjective: terrible 1. extremely or distressingly bad or serious. Quote adjective: mediocre of only moderate quality; not very good. Words have meaning. @ET80 its more than semantics. Its about being overly dramatic. Edited January 7, 2020 by Matts4313 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 15 minutes ago, Matts4313 said: Words have meaning. @ET80 its more than semantics. Its about being overly dramatic. So, where is the barometer for each? What is the cut off between "awful" and "terrible" and "mediocre"? Who determines which is what? How do we manage these cut offs under circumstances that are not universal across each person? How do we differentiate between a 4-12 season with a .334 opponent winning percentage vs a 4-12 season with a .667 opponent winning percentage? Words have meaning, but you have to define said meanings if you're going to create partitions within these meanings. You're creating categories, now you have to define cutoffs for each - when the reality is, these categories can be collapsed into a singular "bad" category and nobody would notice. You could call each of these HCs "mediocre" "awful" or "terrible" and nobody with a reasonable understanding of these phrases would be bothered by it. So, you're creating semantics... to argue semantics. That's new, at least. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DannyB Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 Until irrefutably proven otherwise, I firmly believe that the Giants just hired this guy as head coach... "I find this defense.....GUILTY, of being soft as balls!" 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe_is_the_best Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 (edited) 46 minutes ago, Matts4313 said: Do only HCs count from 2014? ^^^ those coaches are awful https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1443665-50-worst-nfl-head-coaches-of-all-time ^^^ those coaches are terrible https://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/ ^^^ There are 115 HC's in NFL history with worse win %. 98 with a better win %. Thats almost right in the middle. Thats what we call "mediocre" Words have meaning. @ET80 its more than semantics. Its about being overly dramatic. Here you go citing the dictionary, but you didn't seem to understand the point. The record comparison is not apples to apples, it was just used to show he deserved firing. You are glossing over all the context. O'Brien had an under .500 in one of the worst divisions ever (first 4 years, before full Watson). The Texans had 15 wins against their division (2014-2017) which is 62.5%. The rest of the league was 61% against the AFCS (Texans excluded). Zimmer's Vikings were 2-1, Caldwell's Lions were 2-1, Pettine's Browns were 2-2, Gruden's Redskins were 2-1, and Smith's Buccs were 0-3 (lmao). O'Brien was spotted ~4 games per season with plenty of talent & won 40% of the time against everyone else. If that's not 'extremely bad' then what is? OK he wasn't HISTORICALLY awful, but still awful. Edited January 7, 2020 by Joe_is_the_best 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gmen Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 1 hour ago, BayRaider said: It is my opinion, after going over hours of every team. I could be wrong absolutely. But for someone to disagree I’d like them to name their Bottom 2-3 teams next year and give me reasons. Saying you disagree is easy if you’re not giving any examples. All I want is a good discussion and the person disagreeing to give a substitute of their choices. There is a total of 1 team in the final 8 that was also in the final 8 last year. The league is full of parity. Anyone prognosticating how the 2020 season is going to turn out, three months before the draft and free agency, has a lot of time on their hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanedorf Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 (edited) If Joe Judges' tenure in NYC is as crappy as this "discussion" with Matts/ET80 above, he'll be fired before the draft Edited January 7, 2020 by Shanedorf 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatJaxxenGuy Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 (edited) Honestly I don’t see why there’s the hate on for this hire for the Giants. Interview a bunch of people and hire the smartest one you find. If they feel like that’s their guy you pull the trigger. I think that’s better than a mediocre retread of a has-been coach. People calling this an awful hire already are funny ‘cause honestly they have no clue. Harbaugh was an unknown special teams guy and look at the Ravens. Belichick, while known for being a defensive guy got his start coaching long snappers. There’s a lot more to being a head coach than coordinating a defensive or offensive scheme. It’s more of a management position. Time will tell, but we all know fans love their hot takes. Edited January 7, 2020 by ThatJaxxenGuy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronjon1990 Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 Digging into his history, he seems like a low key solid HC candidate to be honest. He's been around some fine coaches for sure: Recruited by and played for Jackie Sherrill Coached under Sylvester Croom at MSU Coached and rubbed shoulders with Nick Sabam, Jim McIlwain, Kirby Smart. Coached for most of the decade under The Hoodie while being tasked with multiple roles. You can definitely see what kind of influencers he's had and how he'll probably conduct business. I didn't know anything about him prior to today, but it doesn't surprise me that he would interview incredibly well. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
49erurtaza Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 Freddie kitchens has a connection with Joe Judge. Guessing he gets hired as RB coach. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sad People Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 Haven't read the entire thread yet so It may of been thrown out there but was John Harbaugh a sought after coach when he got hired? ST coaches seem to turn out fine after they get a HC gig. Only 2 that come to mind are BB and Harbaugh though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minutemancl Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 28 minutes ago, 49erurtaza said: Freddie kitchens has a connection with Joe Judge. Guessing he gets hired as RB coach. . I'd take him. Similar to Shurmur, guy was in well over his head as a head coach, but is still a good coach in a more limited capacity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawgX Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 4 minutes ago, minutemancl said: I'd take him. Similar to Shurmur, guy was in well over his head as a head coach, but is still a good coach in a more limited capacity. Yeah Freddie has a good track record as a position coach. He was just clueless on how to be a HC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigD88 Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 He will never be the most popular “Judge” on a New York professional sports team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VigilantZombie Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 I hope this works out and sometimes these kind of hires do work out. (Tomlin, Harbaugh) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INbengalfan Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 8 hours ago, ramssuperbowl99 said: You don't need to know how it's going to know to think it's funny that when a team takes a complete shot in the dark when they're hiring for one of the most 32 coveted, well-payed positions in all of football. If my dog got named to be the captain of the next spaceshuttle, it might go well or it might not, but you don't need to know that in advance to know that NASA passed over some more qualified, known quantity candidates. Your dog is perfectly qualified for the next space shuttle mission, as they have all been retired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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