Jaime Collins' Ejection - Valid or not?

[malibuspeedrace]

they call that targeting in college

[diamondbull424]

Not seeing what most in this thread are. That’s a clear ejection.

I’ve never seen a player in any sport do something so stupid to a ref (that wasn’t intentional anyway). I mean I could see if he intended to go to work on that ref, that would at least be understandable.

Bad call, make him pay with a crown to the chest. But to unintentionally do this? Idiot. 🤓

[DannyB]

should've led with his shoulder. defenders gotta know that by now.

[incognito_man]

I've nearly lost all faith in humanity that anyone thinks this was warranted.

I'm about as progressive and "yay participation trophies!" as anyone, but this is laughable.

That rule has officially jumped the shark if people are defending an ejection lol

[MookieMonstah]

17 hours ago, lancerman said:

Oh really? They’d funny, I’ve never seen anyone “demonstrate” that to a ref before. Btw I watched that play in room with at least 3 former refs and each one was in agreement. 
 

This thread is delusional to such basic common sense 

You know a lot of soft refs apparently. Put on your big boy pants, you ain't bigger than the game.

[kramxel]

10 hours ago, incognito_man said:

I've nearly lost all faith in humanity that anyone thinks this was warranted.

I'm about as progressive and "yay participation trophies!" as anyone, but this is laughable.

That rule has officially jumped the shark if people are defending an ejection lol

Do you agree with players getting ejected after refs get in the middle of a pile, and end up getting knocked around?

Cause both situations are the same regarding to intention.

 

[Superman(DH23)]

11 hours ago, incognito_man said:

I've nearly lost all faith in humanity that anyone thinks this was warranted.

I'm about as progressive and "yay participation trophies!" as anyone, but this is laughable.

That rule has officially jumped the shark if people are defending an ejection lol

It's called zero tolerance dude.  Players can not contact the officials.  It doesnt matter whether they intended harm or not.  Everyone knows it's the rule.  As someone else already said, there is zero controversy here.  

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

22 minutes ago, Superman(DH23) said:

It's called zero tolerance dude.  Players can not contact the officials.  It doesnt matter whether they intended harm or not.  Everyone knows it's the rule.  As someone else already said, there is zero controversy here.  

But it’s not though, players can help a ref up off the ground, shake their hand, etc, so their IS some level of interpretation.  If a player runs into a ref accidentally everyone moves on (between plays or whatever).  Insisting “you touch a ref then you’re gone, there’s zero tolerance” is 100% incorrect. 
 

People acting as if Collins doing.... whatever he was doing... was somehow harmful or warranted disqualification from a football game are absurd.

[ET80]

10 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

People acting as if Collins doing.... whatever he was doing... was somehow harmful or warranted disqualification from a football game are absurd.

They're also ignoring that he didn't initiate contact...

[kramxel]

1 minute ago, ET80 said:

They're also ignoring that he didn't initiate contact...

If your'e running towards someone and that person takes a step forward to brace themselves, they're not initiating contact.

 

[ET80]

1 minute ago, kramxel said:

If your'e running towards someone and that person takes a step forward to brace themselves, they're not initiating contact.

 

Was he running towards someone? Was he even jogging towards someone? 

Nothing about Jamie Collins' actions warranted someone to brace themselves.

[kramxel]

Just now, ET80 said:

Was he running towards someone? Was he even jogging towards someone? 

Nothing about Jamie Collins' actions warranted someone to brace themselves.

Put yourself in the ref's position.

You see a player coming towards you arguing, he suddenly lowers his helmet as he pushes forward towards you. You flinch. Player is like "Hey, you initiated contact!"

Was Collins trying to touch the ref? No.

How far would he have stayed, have the ref not flinched? Inches.

Is that OK in any way, shape, or form? No.

Is that an ejection by the rules? Yes.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

3 minutes ago, kramxel said:

Put yourself in the ref's position.

ok

3 minutes ago, kramxel said:

You see a player coming towards you arguing, he suddenly lowers his helmet as he pushes forward towards you. You flinch. Player is like "Hey, you initiated contact!"

ok, what’s your point here?

Are you saying he needed to toss him to “get ahead of this thing”??

3 minutes ago, kramxel said:

Was Collins trying to touch the ref? No.

How far would he have stayed, have the ref not flinched? Inches. 
 

again, you’re not making the point you think you are

3 minutes ago, kramxel said:

Is that OK in any way, shape, or form? No.

Is that an ejection by the rules? Yes.

I hope someday you get pulled over for doing 1 mph over the speed limit so you can insist the cop give you a ticket because “the rules are the rules”.

[ET80]

11 minutes ago, kramxel said:

Put yourself in the ref's position.

You see a player coming towards you arguing, he suddenly lowers his helmet as he pushes forward towards you. You flinch. Player is like "Hey, you initiated contact!"

And I agree with this. The refs "flinch" (I don't even think it was a flinch) initiated everything on this. 

If I'm in the refs shoes, I see that instead of emphatically grabbing and throwing my flag (because there was some theater to that toss, he worked on that throw...) and I don't flag it. I maybe give the player a "hey, you really need to chill out," or something, but I don't pull out the flag.

11 minutes ago, kramxel said:

Was Collins trying to touch the ref? No.

Agree.

11 minutes ago, kramxel said:

How far would he have stayed, have the ref not flinched? Inches.

Yup.

11 minutes ago, kramxel said:

Is that OK in any way, shape, or form? No.

Do you mean if it's OK the ref touched the player, or the player was that close to the ref? Because it's not OK the ref touches the players AND throws a flag. It's OK if a player gets up close to a ref.

11 minutes ago, kramxel said:

Is that an ejection by the rules? Yes.

You can't really undo an ejection at the time of this particular discussion... So yeah, it was. This being said, SHOULD THIS be an ejection? I say no, regardless of the letter of the law - because the ref initiated the contact.

[kramxel]

I can't even believe there's something to argue here.

The ref clearly felt that Collins' actions were threatening, and he did flich in response to those actions.

There's a cause and there's an effect. And the cause are clearly Collins' actions.

You want the ref not to react to Collins' actions? To stand his ground like a stone? That's not how human beings react.

And distance is crucial in this situation. If Collins does that from afar it's not a deal, if it does that in the ref's face it's a big deal.