AkronsWitness Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 10 hours ago, Dome said: I'm not big on Taysom Hill at all... I like him as a FB/H-Back/Move TE/Jumbo Slot WR and option QB for some offensive packages. Don't like him at all as a full-time QB, so I certainly don't like paying him top tier backup QB money. I know some Saints fans that agree with me, and others who don't. What about non-Saints fans? Do you see any value in Taysom as a QB? At his $12m base salary, would you trade a anything for him? Not for that contract. He is perfect in the role Payton played him in. What I've noticed is that NFL coordinators are FAR less willing to adapt and change their system to accommodate a player. Good luck with finding more than 2-3 OCs that are willing to run the packages Payton ran with him. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, Yin-Yang said: Winston’s strengths are actually his mobility, skills in the pocket, and arm strength. But putting the ball down the field, the guy consistently just doesn’t see what’s in front of him. Like, some of the worst I’ve seen and it’s not just decision making. TBH, this is his main problem. Accuracy and post-snap read progression isn't nearly as much of an issue. But Winston literally doesn't see the underneath guy even when that guy is uncovered and sometimes staring him down. It's not an accuracy/placement issue, he makes amazing location throws all the time. It's not getting through his reads post-snap - he actually picks the right guy/matchup and gets through it quickly. But he doesn't recognize the rover, or underneath coverage. And it's not a LASIK-fixable issue (I know that narrative will be popular, but you don't have that bad of acuity and miss underneath guys / rovers who are literally in his direct field of vision). It's a killer problem, because at least half of his INT's, if not more, that's the problem. It's also compounded by the fact that when it's an out / hook route, missing the underneath guy is a recipe for pick-6's or long returns. If you want a vet guy who can throw 5000 yards / 35+ TD's - he's the only guy with that skillset out of the vet group. If you want a guy who can win by himself, evade a rush, push the ball downfield and can throw someone open, he's the only guy with that skillset out of the vet group. But he's also the guy who can turn it over 3-4x a game and all but 1 of them be his fault (and sometimes all of them). If he was "only" a 1-2 TO guy, you could live with it - although you'd need the D to be TO-neutral. Having said that, if there are HC's who could fix that problem - Payton's 1 of 3-4 guys I'd see might be up to the job (Reid being another). Arians certainly wasn't, his system puts the ball at risk to begin with. I also know Nagy in CHI sure isn't that guy, and I doubt Shurmur in DEN isn't likely to be that guy, either. It would be surprising if Winston wasn't the 2021 starter in NO, they need each other and I don't see as good a fit for both sides, than the teams/vet stopgap QB's available for each other, as Winston/NO. Edited March 10, 2021 by Broncofan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakuvious Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 13 hours ago, Dome said: I'm not big on Taysom Hill at all... I like him as a FB/H-Back/Move TE/Jumbo Slot WR and option QB for some offensive packages. Don't like him at all as a full-time QB, so I certainly don't like paying him top tier backup QB money. I know some Saints fans that agree with me, and others who don't. What about non-Saints fans? Do you see any value in Taysom as a QB? At his $12m base salary, would you trade a anything for him? The contract tanks his value. Cut it in half and you'd have some takers. Anthony Sherman just retired, so I'd love to have him as a backup TE to Kelce, occasional FB, and a trick play guy. But that's worth like, $5M/year, not $10.5M/year. That contract baffles me to this day. I don't know who they think they were bidding against, or what market would have given him that kind of value. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, Broncofan said: It's not an accuracy/placement issue, he makes amazing location throws all the time. It's not getting through his reads post-snap If you want a vet guy who can throw 5000 yards / 35+ TD's - he's the only guy with that skillset out of the vet group. If you want a guy who can win by himself, evade a rush, push the ball downfield and can throw someone open, he's the only guy with that skillset out of the vet group. But he's also the guy who can turn it over 3-4x a game and all but 1 of them be his fault (and sometimes all of them). If he was "only" a 1-2 TO guy, you could live with it - although you'd need the D to be TO-neutral. I definitely disagree that Winston is a great placer, and for sure can’t get on board that he’s reading defenses well. Especially in the realm of having top 5-10 upside in those regards (granted it’s an easy criticism to mix-in when he’s absolutely blind). He threw a ton of uncatchable balls, and that’s too some skyscrapers down the field. Hard for me to say whether or not his late throws are a reading issue vs a literal sight issue, but either way, I don’t think he’s routinely making the smart throw in a way that you’d want a steady starting QB to make. NO’s definitely the only spot for him, for obvious reasons. Clearly already stable going in 2021, knows the offense, has a clear line to start (unless Payton decides to get cute), and will be playing under a quality coach. If I’m Jameis, I probably think I can get my turnovers under control and throwing to MT with Payton calling the game will help me do that. I don’t think that’s ever something that gets fixed, though. Nor do I think his upside outweighs his downside anymore. That said, I think he’d be better off going to play in Washington, if they’d take him. Downgrading across the board offensively compared to NO, but you’re going to need a stout defense to answer for those turnovers. Edited March 10, 2021 by Yin-Yang Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkippyX Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 (edited) Loomis and Payton's salary cap maneuvers 2016-2020 This does not justify Hill's contract but it explains it. They chased an imaginary title at the expense of the future. Its now the future. Edited March 10, 2021 by SkippyX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackstar12 Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkippyX Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 Winston would be going from Evans, Godwin, Brate, OJ Howard, and Ronald Jones to Thomas, Kamara, and a bunch of really mediocre to bad players. Taking a discount to stay and start in New Orleans could be career suicide. This offense could be 2020 Patriots bad. (probably not, but 16/23 ranked down from 5/12 would not surprise me.) How many offenses survive losing HoF QB1, TE1, and WR1.5? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soflbillsfan Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 27 minutes ago, SkippyX said: Winston would be going from Evans, Godwin, Brate, OJ Howard, and Ronald Jones to Thomas, Kamara, and a bunch of really mediocre to bad players. Taking a discount to stay and start in New Orleans could be career suicide. This offense could be 2020 Patriots bad. (probably not, but 16/23 ranked down from 5/12 would not surprise me.) How many offenses survive losing HoF QB1, TE1, and WR1.5? It comes down to his interest. If saints are the only ones showing interest for him to compete to start you have to assume he should be signing with them but if other teams are out there looking at him it depends on that team. Patriots, Niners, Bears, Saints, and WFT seem to be the teams that need a qb that arent in the top 10 to land one of the top qbs in the draft. Of those 5 teams who actually seem interested to take him? Would the Pats current situation be an upgrade to Saints right now? Would Niners look at him as an upgrade to Jimmy G? Can the Bears afford to pay winston more then what the Saints can offer? WFT I think would be an interesting move but would they want him right now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minutemancl Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 39 minutes ago, Blackstar12 said: Trading anything more than a late round 2021 pick for him in a draft this rich and deep at WR would be malpractice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nex_Gen Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 15 minutes ago, minutemancl said: Trading anything more than a late round 2021 pick for him in a draft this rich and deep at WR would be malpractice. A 6th rounder plus a massage therapist, and he's yours... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldfishwars Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 1 hour ago, Blackstar12 said: Wonder if we will get that 1st round pick back Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 Just now, goldfishwars said: Wonder if we will get that 1st round pick back ...Harry for Watson. It's all part of Belicheck's plan when he sent Easterby to the Texans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 (edited) Judging by the cuts this week, there are 30 teams who think they're getting Russell Wilson or Deshaun Watson. Edited March 10, 2021 by Broncofan 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 3 minutes ago, Broncofan said: Judging by the cuts this week, there are 30 teams who think they're getting Russell Wilson or Deshaun Watson. INCLUDING the Seahawks and Texans - who already have Wilson/Watson. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 47 minutes ago, minutemancl said: Trading anything more than a late round 2021 pick for him in a draft this rich and deep at WR would be malpractice. Zay Jones got a 5th rounder and Dante Pettis couldn't get a 7th. Given that people are calling the Pats, I'd say that it's probably around a 5th if traded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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