Bears/Lions GDT 12/6/20

[JAF-N72EX]

3 minutes ago, CBears019 said:

@dafreak and @JAF-N72EX let’s just drop this now before this escalates into anything more than it needs to.  

Noted.

[dafreak]

2 minutes ago, CBears019 said:

@dafreak and @JAF-N72EX let’s just drop this now before this escalates into anything more than it needs to.  

I have not started or escalated anything but happy to oblige. 

[WindyCity]

This team had a win now offseason. They made desperate trades and terrible signings in an effort to improve on 2019.

They compromised the future of the team to win in 2020.

They are arguably worse.

 

If that doesn’t require a nuclear reset I am not sure what does.

[Sugashane]

We should be poaching the hell out of other teams practice squads. Shut some guys down and get some young guys a chance to make a play. You're going to lose, try to at least find a few young talents that can contribute for us.

Still want to cut Wims since he is a dumb***, can start with him.

 

[WindyCity]

2 minutes ago, Sugashane said:

We should be poaching the hell out of other teams practice squads. Shut some guys down and get some young guys a chance to make a play. You're going to lose, try to at least find a few young talents that can contribute for us.

Still want to cut Wims since he is a dumb***, can start with him.

 

That is why you fire Pace and Nagy tomorrow.

They aren’t going to do what’s best for the team long term. They will do what is best for them to save face and get another job.

But we will let them flop around like dying fish on the dock and not end it quickly.

[Ty21]

1 hour ago, WindyCity said:

That is why you fire Pace and Nagy tomorrow.

They aren’t going to do what’s best for the team long term. They will do what is best for them to save face and get another job.

But we will let them flop around like dying fish on the dock and not end it quickly.

100%. Chicago would never mercy kill a coach halfway through the season. 

[JAF-N72EX]

4 hours ago, topwop1 said:

Well I'd like to think most of us on here are rational enough to not expect a new GM to instantly turn things around in their first couple years on the job after the mess they're going to be left with.

On the contrary 6 years is quite enough time to make a judgement on whether a GM has it or doesn't.

So are you going to give the next GM 6 more years fix the "mess left by Pace"?  Where's the line being drawn here? This seems to change.

I have heard bitching about the Pace not drafting OL, while trying to fix the strength of the team (defense), even when strapped with capital because of the Mack trade which everyone was happy about (except me). So the new GM had BETTER fix the OL RIGHT away.  But the new GM has more capital to work with so we'll see how that goes.

When the next GM gets here, if he doesn't draft several OLineman IMMEDIATELY and revamp the entire OL then I expect the same complaints. But, if he does do this and the defense takes a major fall because he was forced to ignore that aspect of the game in return, then I don't wanna hear **** from anyone. 

It's hard to build a SB team. The league is balanced and designed that way. 

[WindyCity]

Matt Nagy is still employed. He is on the radio this AM.

The McCaskeys may be the most incompetent ownership group in the entire world.

[WindyCity]

5 hours ago, JAF-N72EX said:

So are you going to give the next GM 6 more years fix the "mess left by Pace"?  Where's the line being drawn here? This seems to change.

I have heard bitching about the Pace not drafting OL, while trying to fix the strength of the team (defense), even when strapped with capital because of the Mack trade which everyone was happy about (except me). So the new GM had BETTER fix the OL RIGHT away.  But the new GM has more capital to work with so we'll see how that goes.

When the next GM gets here, if he doesn't draft several OLineman IMMEDIATELY and revamp the entire OL then I expect the same complaints. But, if he does do this and the defense takes a major fall because he was forced to ignore that aspect of the game in return, then I don't wanna hear **** from anyone. 

It's hard to build a SB team. The league is balanced and designed that way. 

My expectation is that the GM will always address obvious crippling needs.

[Nads786]

You don't need a few years to turn around a program. We have a first round pick next year, all you have to do is start hitting on your draft at a reasonable basis. The 49ers are a great example of turning things around.

We just haven't seen a GM with the ability to draft well. It shouldn't take 6 years to go from the bottom to a potential playoff team.

2015 - Todd Gurley

2016 - Jeremy Tunsill (save the trade up for Floyd)

2017 - Patrick Mahomes / Deshaun Watson

2018 - Mike McGlinchey

2019 - Marquise Brown

2020 - Justin Jefferson / Keneth Muarry 

Edited December 7, 2020 by Nads786

[topwop1]

2 hours ago, WindyCity said:

Matt Nagy is still employed. He is on the radio this AM.

The McCaskeys may be the most incompetent ownership group in the entire world.

LOL

I was thinking about it and maybe it's a good thing that Nagy is still employed for the rest of this season to ensure that we bottom out and get a better pick.  Usually when teams fire a coach we see it galvanize the team to play better the next few games.  We saw it with the Falcons, Texans and now Lions.

However that said, they should have no reason not to fire Pace right now.

[CBears019]

10 minutes ago, topwop1 said:

LOL

I was thinking about it and maybe it's a good thing that Nagy is still employed for the rest of this season to ensure that we bottom out and get a better pick.  Usually when teams fire a coach we see it galvanize the team to play better the next few games.  We saw it with the Falcons, Texans and now Lions.

However that said, they should have no reason not to fire Pace right now.

Yeah I see why fans want Nagy fired right now, but at this point I think it’s safe to say he’s done at the end of the year regardless.  I don’t know what they can realistically do that would save his job, except for management just simply deciding that they want to keep him around.

I get that people want them to get a head start on the coaching search, but I feel at this point draft position is more important.  Nagy is the teams best chance to continue this downward spiral.  Each game from here on out is critical as far as our first round pick.  It seems every year when the Bears totally suck they find themselves in a position where they’d be drafting in the top 5, but eek out 2 or 3 wins at the end of the year for pride, and their draft pick drops into the teens.

[Sugashane]

7 hours ago, JAF-N72EX said:

So are you going to give the next GM 6 more years fix the "mess left by Pace"?  Where's the line being drawn here? This seems to change.

I have heard bitching about the Pace not drafting OL, while trying to fix the strength of the team (defense), even when strapped with capital because of the Mack trade which everyone was happy about (except me). So the new GM had BETTER fix the OL RIGHT away.  But the new GM has more capital to work with so we'll see how that goes.

When the next GM gets here, if he doesn't draft several OLineman IMMEDIATELY and revamp the entire OL then I expect the same complaints. But, if he does do this and the defense takes a major fall because he was forced to ignore that aspect of the game in return, then I don't wanna hear **** from anyone. 

It's hard to build a SB team. The league is balanced and designed that way. 

I don't think the new GM has a similar mess that Pace inherited. Pace came in with a roster that was old and devoid of talent on defense. He had talent on offense that was never matched up with here too - Cutler, Jeffrey, Marshall (traded away pre-draft) and Bennett. Now we have a bottom feeder offense 6 years later. That being said unless the new guy loses the team completely like Emery I think 3 years is the minimum they should get to show noted improvement. Pace needed time to overhaul the roster but the last 3 were his years to show he is worth keeping.

The Mack trade can't constantly be an excuse for the OL sucking. He had 4 drafts prior to the Mack trade and never took a real OT unless you want to try counting on Fabujule in the 6th. He had the capital to make the moves as he saw fit, and even moved up numerous times. Pace was in control and chose not to address the spots, if he was worried about not having enough capital he could have traded back. But he traded up and mortgaged future picks, so apparently Pace himself wasn't worried about having a lack of capital. He doubled down by extending Leno and Massie, who both had decent years and got paid for being average. The value looked like it would have been there if they could at least maintain that level of play but they simply didn't. It was a swing and a miss at both tackle spots.

It is hard to build a SB team, but we aren't a SB team. We are a sub .500 team that has had to overachieve and get damn "lucky" to not be a 3 win team. If we were a legitimate playoff contender there would be more support but we aren't, the team sucks even with a talented defense. You have said he wanted to support the strength of the team (defense) and look how well that has worked. I said prior to the 2020 season that I just needed to see an average offense, and they have done nothing but accumulate stats against 

Now I'm not bashing and genuinely asking - Honestly what are your parameters for keeping Pace or how would you grade the new GM if he is fired? Its hard to draw definite lines since your teams change so much. Do you actually think with the Mack trade not going down that he addresses the OL? I see nothing to indicate he even could. He never took a tackle before the 6th round, his 1st round picks are poor at best - Floyd was a bust as an EDGE and we were lucky he was versatile enough to do well off-ball and Smith has been the best of the 1st rounders, but still hasn't been someone you really build a defense around.

 

[blkwdw13]

12 hours ago, Sugashane said:

We should be poaching the hell out of other teams practice squads. Shut some guys down and get some young guys a chance to make a play. You're going to lose, try to at least find a few young talents that can contribute for us.

Still want to cut Wims since he is a dumb***, can start with him.

 

I honestly don’t see what Wims provides over Ridley. They both play special teams but Ridley has actually out produced Wims and also looked better in the limited time. 

[BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW]

The next GM has challenges, but quite different ones than what Pace had.  They'll be tight on the cap, with a lot of big contracts on Defense, and a pick TBD likely early-middle.  The biggest upside is that they can potentially shed some of those contracts through trades and improve their future prospects.

I feel like it wasn't popular a couple weeks ago, but I still think no one is off limits for trading. I understand the difficulty in doing so, but would love to tag and trade Robinson. More achievable trades would be for Hicks,  Goldman.  I felt like people jumped on me, but I would absolutely take a strong offer for Fuller, Jackson etc.  If you could grab a first rounder for _ANYONE_ on this team I think you take it, a second rd pick is worth considering as well. 

The sad truth is the Bears are probably going to be a lot like 2020 next year as well. This isn't a 1yr fix.  We need to think about 2022 and who is going to be working hard for us then. Hicks is my fav defensive player but he's a good example of a great Bear that probably won't be productive when we're good again. 

I was working yesterday, so managed to avoid EVERYONE texting about the game, went to watch it and realized our recorded somehow grabbed the Colts game instead of the Bears.  My wife looked it up and told me the score and I wasn't suprised until we watched the highlights and I kept asking her if she was messing with me, or wanted to make it a pleasant surprise somehow. Then... oh man. Sorry for you guys who watched the whole thing.