The possibility of keeping Darnold and trading down thread

[drew39k]

1 hour ago, canadianjetsfan said:

Curious that I don’t see many comments about trading down and yet still taking a QB. Is the drop off that big from Wilson to the next QB’s?

 

I’d love to read some breakdowns on how all the potential first round QB’s would fit into the assumed new Jets offense. 
 

Best case is we trade down, still get a QB that would work, and fill more roster holes. 

It doesn't make sense to trade down if the plan is to select a QB. If the GM feels Darnold is not the guy and feels like one of Wilson Fields or Lance are the guy he cannot risk trading down and missing out on the guy he believes is a franchise QB. How horrible would it be for him to decide he wants to move on from Darnold and identifies Fields as the guy. Believing he can get fields at 6 he trades back only to have fields taken at 5 by a team that traded over him. The risk of not landing the guy is far to high to justify trading down if he is set on taking a QB. The trade down move would only be if he does not want to take a QB at the top of the draft.

[drew39k]

2 hours ago, JamisonByke said:

I cant believe this fan base has yet to realize how bad Darnold is. Not only is the guy mentally challenged but he can't even hit his guys that are wide open with a clean pocket.

 

The only plays he mades are off script with nothing on the line. This fan base is trash!

So here is the thing man. Gase has a proven track record of making QBs look worse than they actually are. The system Darnold played in was trash. The WRs he was throwing to were trash, the line that was blocking for him was trash and the running game was trash. Darnold may we'll be broken beyond repair, or he might be able to be salvaged if we put him into a better situation(similar to how Tannehill did better once he was separated from Gase). If you drop Darnold and he goes on to reach his potential somewhere else you end up looking pretty foolish. If you play it out with his this year and he looks good, you have your guy and if he sucks you will have a high pick next year along with the ammo you would have gotten from trading down this year to get your next qb next year. In that last scenario you would also gain the benefit of not pairing a rookie hc with a rookie qb(rarely works) and you also get to further build your offensive supports so the new qb can have a better chance to succeed, plus because the offense will have been in place for a year offensive lineman, wrs, and rbs on the team will have a much better understanding of the plays and can actually help the rookie adapt to the nfl game instead of asking a rookie qb to learn the nfl game and teach an offense to a team all in one go.

[canadianjetsfan]

1 hour ago, drew39k said:

It doesn't make sense to trade down if the plan is to select a QB. If the GM feels Darnold is not the guy and feels like one of Wilson Fields or Lance are the guy he cannot risk trading down and missing out on the guy he believes is a franchise QB. How horrible would it be for him to decide he wants to move on from Darnold and identifies Fields as the guy. Believing he can get fields at 6 he trades back only to have fields taken at 5 by a team that traded over him. The risk of not landing the guy is far to high to justify trading down if he is set on taking a QB. The trade down move would only be if he does not want to take a QB at the top of the draft.

But what if they believe there are 3 QB’s in this draft that would excel in this offensive system and they don’t fall in love with any one in particular? So then the evaluation would be Wilson with current surrounding talent or (insert QB) and additional supporting cast.  
 

That’s why I was asking if Wilson is that much better and of the top QB’s which would fit this system the best. 
 

I doubt there would be 100% consensus on QB’s there sure isn’t on this forum. 
 

I don’t necessarily think this will happen but it is as likely as any other predicting the future argument and it’s fun to talk about.  

[KingOfNewYork]

6 hours ago, drew39k said:

So here is the thing man. Gase has a proven track record of making QBs look worse than they actually are.

This is literally a lie. 

https://www.ganggreennation.com/2019/1/10/18176952/looking-at-adam-gases-history-with-quarterbacks-new-york-jets-head-coach

All proof of Quarterbacks and offenses improving under him. Tannehill's issue were injuries which is why Miami moved on. 

Gase was a bad head coach for us, yes but there is not a "proven" track record of him making QBs look bad. 

[KingOfNewYork]

8 hours ago, JamisonByke said:

I cant believe this fan base has yet to realize how bad Darnold is. Not only is the guy mentally challenged but he can't even hit his guys that are wide open with a clean pocket.

 

The only plays he mades are off script with nothing on the line. This fan base is trash!

Agreed on the first part but we dont call each other trash on here, we dont always get along or agree but the trash comment was unnecessary and against the sites rules. Express your opinion without attacking others. Welcome to FF. 

[KodiakThunder]

I get the feeling the guy JD loves most is a guy like Rayshawn Slater. He can play any position on the line at a high level. Scouts rave about his technique and feet, while also slated to go 5-10. He could easily upgrade several oline positions, with a long term plan of moving him to tackle if we start with him inside. 

I could see Carolina giving us a 1st (8), 2nd, 2022 1st and 3rd. 

If we decide to trade down, longterm we could be incredibly good if the extra picks pan out... at the end of the day the more talent on a roster (acquired mostly by picks) is the more likely to have success. 

The jets now face the biggest dilemma in all of football.  The QB or the team.  Do the jets grab a QB they love on a team with minimal talent compared to the rest of the league? Or do they first invest in the team as a whole in order to provide a lesser renowned QB a  better opportunity.  Both work and yet both often fail. 

[jetfuel34]

7 hours ago, KingOfNewYork said:

This is literally a lie. 

https://www.ganggreennation.com/2019/1/10/18176952/looking-at-adam-gases-history-with-quarterbacks-new-york-jets-head-coach

All proof of Quarterbacks and offenses improving under him. Tannehill's issue were injuries which is why Miami moved on. 

Gase was a bad head coach for us, yes but there is not a "proven" track record of him making QBs look bad. 

I disagree here. He NEVER put his QB in good postion to win or even be good. Manning was doing all the play calling from the line. Gase should have NEVER been an OC or QB coach let alone a HC. He killed Tannehill and Darnold. Then the moron thinks Gore will be better than Bell and NEVER used Bell right at all. The guy is a clown period. 

[Big T]

6 hours ago, KodiakThunder said:

I get the feeling the guy JD loves most is a guy like Rayshawn Slater. He can play any position on the line at a high level. Scouts rave about his technique and feet, while also slated to go 5-10. He could easily upgrade several oline positions, with a long term plan of moving him to tackle if we start with him inside. 

I could see Carolina giving us a 1st (8), 2nd, 2022 1st and 3rd. 

If we decide to trade down, longterm we could be incredibly good if the extra picks pan out... at the end of the day the more talent on a roster (acquired mostly by picks) is the more likely to have success. 

The jets now face the biggest dilemma in all of football.  The QB or the team.  Do the jets grab a QB they love on a team with minimal talent compared to the rest of the league? Or do they first invest in the team as a whole in order to provide a lesser renowned QB a  better opportunity.  Both work and yet both often fail. 

Yes the possibility exists that Carolina could trade up, and using your scenario of draft picks would vastly catapult the Jets forward into the process of making the playoffs. Darnold would be given an extra year to show what he could do with a higher grade of talent surrounding him. So coming away with with the extra picks is very alluring. Take into account that Watson will not be moved prior to his being cleared of all wrong doing before the new year.

I expect that Houston is going to be impacted most by not moving Watson sooner this year, after the allegations of wrong doing (innocent or guilty is not the issue) compensation will not be as great.

So the Jets could find themselves in the D.W. running for his services next year, with a vastly improved roster, and still have picks leftover in 2022 to continue to improve.

Interesting!

[jetfuel34]

6 hours ago, KodiakThunder said:

I get the feeling the guy JD loves most is a guy like Rayshawn Slater. He can play any position on the line at a high level. Scouts rave about his technique and feet, while also slated to go 5-10. He could easily upgrade several oline positions, with a long term plan of moving him to tackle if we start with him inside. 

I could see Carolina giving us a 1st (8), 2nd, 2022 1st and 3rd. 

If we decide to trade down, longterm we could be incredibly good if the extra picks pan out... at the end of the day the more talent on a roster (acquired mostly by picks) is the more likely to have success. 

The jets now face the biggest dilemma in all of football.  The QB or the team.  Do the jets grab a QB they love on a team with minimal talent compared to the rest of the league? Or do they first invest in the team as a whole in order to provide a lesser renowned QB a  better opportunity.  Both work and yet both often fail. 

I'm starting to like Slater over all the other OL guys. I think he has a very bright future and I think a trade down and grab him would be huge.

[Dr.O]

There’s no reason Sam should be on this team next year

[KingOfNewYork]

1 hour ago, jetfuel34 said:

I disagree here. He NEVER put his QB in good postion to win or even be good. 

The article, literally, literally, disproves this theory.

[Greene N White]

13 hours ago, canadianjetsfan said:

But what if they believe there are 3 QB’s in this draft that would excel in this offensive system and they don’t fall in love with any one in particular? So then the evaluation would be Wilson with current surrounding talent or (insert QB) and additional supporting cast.  
 

That’s why I was asking if Wilson is that much better and of the top QB’s which would fit this system the best. 
 

I doubt there would be 100% consensus on QB’s there sure isn’t on this forum. 
 

I don’t necessarily think this will happen but it is as likely as any other predicting the future argument and it’s fun to talk about.  

You do not get cute with the quarterback position. If you are in position to grab the guy you want to lead this franchise the last thing you do is trade back and settle for someone else. 

[KingOfNewYork]

We aren't keeping Darnold so its a moot point anyway, we also aren't making a trade until the Jags pick because if they pass on Lawrence then we'll take him. 

[Greene N White]

2 minutes ago, KingOfNewYork said:

We aren't keeping Darnold so its a moot point anyway, we also aren't making a trade until the Jags pick because if they pass on Lawrence then we'll take him. 

Sadly I’d say there’s a very realistic chance they keep darnold.

[canadianjetsfan]

10 minutes ago, Greene N White said:

You do not get cute with the quarterback position. If you are in position to grab the guy you want to lead this franchise the last thing you do is trade back and settle for someone else. 

Let me ask it this way then. 
 

Would you trade Darnold for L. Jackson right now? 
 

Would Jackson be the same QB right now if he were drafted by the Jets instead of Baltimore? Or was the situation he was drafted into a help to him becoming better? Darnold was assumed better at the time of the draft, so did everyone just over rate Darnold?

This is the situation that should be considered. Would a QB have better long term success with a better team around them? Recent drafted QB history would say yes.

So are we better off with let’s say Fields (pick any of the potential first rounders) and some extra picks to improve the roster or Wilson with the current situation?

If you believe that there is not much difference in the talent of those QB’s then you are not maximizing your resources if you don’t trade back.

This is not dissimilar to how the second round was handled last year when Mims was selected.  
 

If they consider one QB a better prospect then the rest  that’s when you make the pick.

 

There are 2 schools of thought on which comes first QB or roster and both have their successes and failures, but we are in a very unique situation that we could potentially do both and I hope that management is at least considering it.