Joe Barry'd again

[squire12]

14 hours ago, R T said:

Teams with the highest percentage of blitzing per play. 

1.) Giants 43.3% - 2.) Cardinals 41.7% - 3.) Lions 35.9% - 4.) Broncos 33.9% - 5.) Packers 33.8%

Team defenses with the fewest total yards allowed.

1.) 49ers 1246 - 2.) Bills 1302 - 3.) Broncos 1445 - 4.) Eagles 1472 - 5.) Packers 1517

GB is middle of the teams in yards per play

14 hours ago, R T said:

Team defenses with the fewest passing yards allowed. 

1.) Broncos 883 - 2.) Packers 885 - 3.) 49ers 889 - 4.) Bills 913 - 5.) Eagles 947

 

 

 

GB is middle of the teams in yards per pass attempt while being last in pass attempts per game.  

Would be curious to see where things rank in terms of per possession metrics 

[coachbuns]

2 hours ago, CWood21 said:

Yes.  Barry is effectively betting on the QB making a mistake.  At the very least, he's very confident in our pass rush.

So far, he'd be losing his butt in Vegas betting like he has.  Packers D haven't had many qb's making mistakes .. hard to make one when their furthest throw is 10 yards.   

[MacReady]

2 hours ago, incognito_man said:

"But the Packers’ third-down performance is also a product of their changing fronts. The Packers lead the league in blitz rate on first and second down at 43.2 percent—but they aren’t really blitzing. They’re sending five-plus rushers because of how often they line up in five-down fronts. With three interior defensive linemen flanked by big outside linebackers in Rashan Gary and Preston Smith, the Packers don’t really have anyone they want to drop in coverage off the line (remember how funny it was to watch Smith drop into coverage across from Justin Jefferson?). So they tend to just rush all five.

 

But that’s … not actually a blitz."

@Outpost31

I knew it.

I literally called it, and this is literally what I thought.

Now imagine if we actually blitzed.

[incognito_man]

8 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

I knew it.

I literally called it, and this is literally what I thought.

Now imagine if we actually blitzed.

I remember the little things about you

[Norm]

1 hour ago, incognito_man said:

I remember the little things about you

I used to come here for palmy but now I'm only here to look for outpost thoughts

[incognito_man]

12 minutes ago, Norm said:

I used to come here for palmy but now I'm only here to look for outpost thoughts

That and Bob Gray 

[AlexGreen#20]

8 hours ago, Old Guy said:

I think @AlexGreen#20is pretty frustrated with the Packers. He hasn't been around nearly as much lately. Of course, live might actually be getting in the way of this forum. 

Life's been kicking my *** tbh

And honestly I'm kinda burned out with this team. As constructed its headed for another playoff game loss.

[AlexGreen#20]

9 hours ago, Rainmaker90 said:

Can someone who understands the Xs and Os better than I do maybe @AlexGreen#20ir @Packerraymond

explain to me why teams prefer zone coverage to man ?

 

It seems like zone needs really good communication, a lot of extra thinking, timing to be on point and all parts working in perfect synergy in order for it to be working effectively. 
 

I also think it would be harder helping the weakest link, without sacrificing your assigned zone . 
 

I do not know much about the topic at all so I could be wrong on all of it. 

Let's start with the basics. You rush 4. That leaves you 7 players in the secondary.

Defense starts in the run game. Aggressiveness isn't really determined by man vs. zone. It's generally determined by Safety placement. Light box vs. Heavy box. 

Heavy  Box Fill Assignments: 

You're better against the run. And you're better against the middle of the field passing game, but you're weak on the perimeter and can get beat deep. To make up for the CBs being on an island, they generally play very far back. Frequently they play so far back that they leave themselves open to quick WR screens or slant routes. Generally when a CB wants to play aggressive, they want to be allowed to play forward to take away the short stuff, and trust their ability to win deep vertically.  

+++

Light Box Fill Assignments

With a light box you tend to be weak up the middle. You only have 6 defenders to fill 7 gaps, so your ILBs need to read and fill rather than being able to shoot their gaps in the run game. Because your safeties will be dropping back to take away deep halves, you're more prepared on the perimeter so that your CBs can play more forward without fear of getting beat deep. In the passing game, you worry about TEs on the skinny post getting deep vertically up the middle. 

+++

Joe Barry runs a **** ton of Cover-6. 

In a Cover-6:

Your #1 CB lines up over the #2 WR on the boundary (Z receiver). He doesn't get any help over the top. He's on his own. Because he's on his own, the DC generally has him play off the receiver, giving up the short yardage.

Your #2 CB lines up over the #1 WR with safety help over the top. Because he's got Safety help over the top, he can play aggressively knowing that he's only got to cover for the first fifteen yards. This CB generally lines up in press coverage in this alignment with the instruction not to get beat inside.

The slot CB generally has the same protection with Safety help over the top. 

The LBs generally play hook to curl. 

+++

One of the issues you run into with man to man coverages is that they're extremely susceptible to certain route combinations. For as much communication as is required in zone coverages, certain natural pick plays become nightmare-ish. 

If you look at the below play: 

There's no chance that the outside receiver is going to be able to cover the Z receiver because he's going to have to fight through the vertical routes run by the A and the Y. If the communication is done right, does the inside corner take the Z receiver? If so, you put your SS in a **** spot having to deal with both the vertical route and the flag? If you're the ILB matched up with the RB, can you fight through the drag route and both vertical stems to get to the flare route? It gets EXTREMELY complicated. 

It's also VERY difficult to disguise man to man coverage. Simply sending a WR in motion across the formation will give away the coverage. It's far easier to disguise the looks based on simple shifts. Once the coverage has been identified, getting into these man beaters isn't difficult. 

+++

 

+++

As additional info, there's a bunch of different man to man combinations you can play, and most of them have the same problems you have in zone. 

Cover-1 Man

Cover-2 Man

Cover-0 Man

+++

I don't know if this helps. 

[KFP7]

20 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Let's start with the basics. You rush 4. That leaves you 7 players in the secondary.

Defense starts in the run game. Aggressiveness isn't really determined by man vs. zone. It's generally determined by Safety placement. Light box vs. Heavy box. 

Heavy  Box Fill Assignments: 

You're better against the run. And you're better against the middle of the field passing game, but you're weak on the perimeter and can get beat deep. To make up for the CBs being on an island, they generally play very far back. Frequently they play so far back that they leave themselves open to quick WR screens or slant routes. Generally when a CB wants to play aggressive, they want to be allowed to play forward to take away the short stuff, and trust their ability to win deep vertically.  

+++

Light Box Fill Assignments

With a light box you tend to be weak up the middle. You only have 6 defenders to fill 7 gaps, so your ILBs need to read and fill rather than being able to shoot their gaps in the run game. Because your safeties will be dropping back to take away deep halves, you're more prepared on the perimeter so that your CBs can play more forward without fear of getting beat deep. In the passing game, you worry about TEs on the skinny post getting deep vertically up the middle. 

+++

Joe Barry runs a **** ton of Cover-6. 

In a Cover-6:

Your #1 CB lines up over the #2 WR on the boundary (Z receiver). He doesn't get any help over the top. He's on his own. Because he's on his own, the DC generally has him play off the receiver, giving up the short yardage.

Your #2 CB lines up over the #1 WR with safety help over the top. Because he's got Safety help over the top, he can play aggressively knowing that he's only got to cover for the first fifteen yards. This CB generally lines up in press coverage in this alignment with the instruction not to get beat inside.

The slot CB generally has the same protection with Safety help over the top. 

The LBs generally play hook to curl. 

+++

One of the issues you run into with man to man coverages is that they're extremely susceptible to certain route combinations. For as much communication as is required in zone coverages, certain natural pick plays become nightmare-ish. 

If you look at the below play: 

There's no chance that the outside receiver is going to be able to cover the Z receiver because he's going to have to fight through the vertical routes run by the A and the Y. If the communication is done right, does the inside corner take the Z receiver? If so, you put your SS in a **** spot having to deal with both the vertical route and the flag? If you're the ILB matched up with the RB, can you fight through the drag route and both vertical stems to get to the flare route? It gets EXTREMELY complicated. 

It's also VERY difficult to disguise man to man coverage. Simply sending a WR in motion across the formation will give away the coverage. It's far easier to disguise the looks based on simple shifts. Once the coverage has been identified, getting into these man beaters isn't difficult. 

+++

 

+++

As additional info, there's a bunch of different man to man combinations you can play, and most of them have the same problems you have in zone. 

Cover-1 Man

Cover-2 Man

Cover-0 Man

+++

I don't know if this helps. 

it helps, love you man.

I always wondered what these things meant in Madden

[raj34]

Awesome thanks AG20 great stuff

[incognito_man]

6 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Let's start with the basics. You rush 4. That leaves you 7 players in the secondary.

Defense starts in the run game. Aggressiveness isn't really determined by man vs. zone. It's generally determined by Safety placement. Light box vs. Heavy box. 

Heavy  Box Fill Assignments: 

You're better against the run. And you're better against the middle of the field passing game, but you're weak on the perimeter and can get beat deep. To make up for the CBs being on an island, they generally play very far back. Frequently they play so far back that they leave themselves open to quick WR screens or slant routes. Generally when a CB wants to play aggressive, they want to be allowed to play forward to take away the short stuff, and trust their ability to win deep vertically.  

+++

Light Box Fill Assignments

With a light box you tend to be weak up the middle. You only have 6 defenders to fill 7 gaps, so your ILBs need to read and fill rather than being able to shoot their gaps in the run game. Because your safeties will be dropping back to take away deep halves, you're more prepared on the perimeter so that your CBs can play more forward without fear of getting beat deep. In the passing game, you worry about TEs on the skinny post getting deep vertically up the middle. 

+++

Joe Barry runs a **** ton of Cover-6. 

In a Cover-6:

Your #1 CB lines up over the #2 WR on the boundary (Z receiver). He doesn't get any help over the top. He's on his own. Because he's on his own, the DC generally has him play off the receiver, giving up the short yardage.

Your #2 CB lines up over the #1 WR with safety help over the top. Because he's got Safety help over the top, he can play aggressively knowing that he's only got to cover for the first fifteen yards. This CB generally lines up in press coverage in this alignment with the instruction not to get beat inside.

The slot CB generally has the same protection with Safety help over the top. 

The LBs generally play hook to curl. 

+++

One of the issues you run into with man to man coverages is that they're extremely susceptible to certain route combinations. For as much communication as is required in zone coverages, certain natural pick plays become nightmare-ish. 

If you look at the below play: 

There's no chance that the outside receiver is going to be able to cover the Z receiver because he's going to have to fight through the vertical routes run by the A and the Y. If the communication is done right, does the inside corner take the Z receiver? If so, you put your SS in a **** spot having to deal with both the vertical route and the flag? If you're the ILB matched up with the RB, can you fight through the drag route and both vertical stems to get to the flare route? It gets EXTREMELY complicated. 

It's also VERY difficult to disguise man to man coverage. Simply sending a WR in motion across the formation will give away the coverage. It's far easier to disguise the looks based on simple shifts. Once the coverage has been identified, getting into these man beaters isn't difficult. 

+++

 

+++

As additional info, there's a bunch of different man to man combinations you can play, and most of them have the same problems you have in zone. 

Cover-1 Man

Cover-2 Man

Cover-0 Man

+++

I don't know if this helps. 

It looks like a child drew this 

[Rainmaker90]

7 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Let's start with the basics. You rush 4. That leaves you 7 players in the secondary.

Defense starts in the run game. Aggressiveness isn't really determined by man vs. zone. It's generally determined by Safety placement. Light box vs. Heavy box. 

Heavy  Box Fill Assignments: 

You're better against the run. And you're better against the middle of the field passing game, but you're weak on the perimeter and can get beat deep. To make up for the CBs being on an island, they generally play very far back. Frequently they play so far back that they leave themselves open to quick WR screens or slant routes. Generally when a CB wants to play aggressive, they want to be allowed to play forward to take away the short stuff, and trust their ability to win deep vertically.  

+++

Light Box Fill Assignments

With a light box you tend to be weak up the middle. You only have 6 defenders to fill 7 gaps, so your ILBs need to read and fill rather than being able to shoot their gaps in the run game. Because your safeties will be dropping back to take away deep halves, you're more prepared on the perimeter so that your CBs can play more forward without fear of getting beat deep. In the passing game, you worry about TEs on the skinny post getting deep vertically up the middle. 

+++

Joe Barry runs a **** ton of Cover-6. 

In a Cover-6:

Your #1 CB lines up over the #2 WR on the boundary (Z receiver). He doesn't get any help over the top. He's on his own. Because he's on his own, the DC generally has him play off the receiver, giving up the short yardage.

Your #2 CB lines up over the #1 WR with safety help over the top. Because he's got Safety help over the top, he can play aggressively knowing that he's only got to cover for the first fifteen yards. This CB generally lines up in press coverage in this alignment with the instruction not to get beat inside.

The slot CB generally has the same protection with Safety help over the top. 

The LBs generally play hook to curl. 

+++

One of the issues you run into with man to man coverages is that they're extremely susceptible to certain route combinations. For as much communication as is required in zone coverages, certain natural pick plays become nightmare-ish. 

If you look at the below play: 

There's no chance that the outside receiver is going to be able to cover the Z receiver because he's going to have to fight through the vertical routes run by the A and the Y. If the communication is done right, does the inside corner take the Z receiver? If so, you put your SS in a **** spot having to deal with both the vertical route and the flag? If you're the ILB matched up with the RB, can you fight through the drag route and both vertical stems to get to the flare route? It gets EXTREMELY complicated. 

It's also VERY difficult to disguise man to man coverage. Simply sending a WR in motion across the formation will give away the coverage. It's far easier to disguise the looks based on simple shifts. Once the coverage has been identified, getting into these man beaters isn't difficult. 

+++

 

+++

As additional info, there's a bunch of different man to man combinations you can play, and most of them have the same problems you have in zone. 

Cover-1 Man

Cover-2 Man

Cover-0 Man

+++

I don't know if this helps. 

That was incredibly helpful! Much appreciated 

[FinneasGage]

5 hours ago, incognito_man said:

It looks like a child drew this 

A dumb child at that 

[FinneasGage]

The Barry hire, on paper, was always the most dumpster fire hiring the packers have made since I’ve been a fan in 04 at least. Never made sense and is my only massive peeve with MLF. Barry is being Barry, can’t even be mad at him lol. You hire a guy with one of the worst track records of all time and he’s doing a bad job.. that’s what he does. Kudos to him. He’s a North Star for all us ****ty employees that don’t really give af about our jobs. I mean **** bro imagine someone gives you all the **** we have on defense and you just choose to do nothing fun with it. Like wtf are you doing man lol. Run fun ****. Do something cool. I don’t get it man. How do you get a DC job and just run vanilla **** all day. But whatever man that’s on MLF. He learned his lesson with special teams. Maybe he’ll learn it with defense after this season. 

[Mazrimiv]

Solak at The Ringer had a decent article on GB's issues on both offense and defense.

Are the Packers’ Issues About Scheme or Talent? Yes.

I have not been keeping up on the discussions over the past few days, so I apologize if this has already been posted.