Is there an argument for Baker Mayfield #1 ?

[Bonanza23]

1 hour ago, Thomas5737 said:

Yeah he shouldn't have done that but at least it was a one time thing, pretty sure Kizer was doing that all season in actual games.

Yep. I can’t lie that video where Mayfield hits the cat in the head was a great throw!  Very accurate. 

[FGK]

6 hours ago, MWil23 said:

5. For every Philip Rivers or Cam Newton, I'll raise you a bunch of other guys. Plenty of guys have flamed out due to hot-headedness that was brushed aside at the time. Ask Ryan Leaf and the other clown that we drafted a few years ago, not to mention lazy slugs like JaMarcus Russell.

I absolutely and firmly disagree with this point to the point where I'd call it ludicrous. Lot's of hot-headed prospects have flamed out, sure, but so have plenty of ice cold, "face of the franchise" dudes. And guys don't flame out solely because they're hot headed. JaMarcus Russell has no place in this conversation. He wasn't really a hot head, got overdrafted because of pure arm strength (paging Josh Allen), and flamed out because he balooned to 300 pounds. Ryan Leaf had severe mental issues and, yet again, was never technically good enough to be a #1 pick, he got drafted on physicality. Oh, hey look. More company for Josh Allen, Ryan Leaf ALSO never completed more than 56% of his passes in college (topped out at 55.4% his last year)!

Your listed examples are literally a case for why to not draft Josh Allen, neither of them share characteristics in their on-field play with Mayfield.

[FGK]

4 hours ago, duke2056 said:

We need a nerd

WE HAD THEM AND YOU ALL APPLAUDED THEIR FIRINGS BECAUSE THEY WERE DOING WHAT THEY TOLD US ALL THEY WOULD DO.

Alright, regained control. You gotta put trigger warnings on these things, sheesh.

[NudeTayne]

 Get 'em, @freakygeniuskid!

[brownie man]

Is there an argument for Baker Mayfield at one?

No not if Sam Darnold is in the same draft

[Bonanza23]

From the dept of take it for what it’s worth: according to Mary Kay ? one of Mayfields main goals at the senior bowl was to shake the Manziel comparisons. She said according to people she’s talked to he hasn’t been successful. 

Heads for the hills...

 

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

3 minutes ago, Bonanza23 said:

From the dept of take it for what it’s worth: according to Mary Kay ? one of Mayfields main goals at the senior bowl was to shake the Manziel comparisons. She said according to people she’s talked to he hasn’t been successful. 

Heads for the hills...

 

I think people see what they want to see with him.

Some folks won’t consider what he may do/did an issue, same as Manziel.

Others won’t hear any other narrative other than he’s a party boy or selfish or whatever.

MKC just seemed bitter he wouldn’t give her an interview iyam.

[MWil23]

12 minutes ago, freakygeniuskid said:

I absolutely and firmly disagree with this point to the point where I'd call it ludicrous.

You're certainly entitled to your opinion. I get that you're a huge Baker Mayfield fan and if I was, I'd probably say the same.

12 minutes ago, freakygeniuskid said:

Lot's of hot-headed prospects have flamed out, sure, but so have plenty of ice cold, "face of the franchise" dudes.

Correct, I didn't deny as much.

12 minutes ago, freakygeniuskid said:

And guys don't flame out solely because they're hot headed.

A few things. I didn't just call Baker a hot-head, I also implied that I'm genuinely concerned about other off the field incidents, immaturity, and fear he's also a party animal. As for your above comment, I 100% disagree with this to the point that I'd call it ludicrous as well. Ryan Leaf=complete hot head,  the same with Lawrence Phillips, etc. 

12 minutes ago, freakygeniuskid said:

JaMarcus Russell has no place in this conversation. He wasn't really a hot head, got overdrafted because of pure arm strength (paging Josh Allen), and flamed out because he balooned to 300 pounds.

Maybe I didn't make myself clear. I didn't say Russell flamed out because he was a hot-head, I said that he flamed out (or meant to say anyway) because he was LAZY and didn't take football seriously, which I worry about Mayfield when it comes to the above mentioned party boy lifestyle.

12 minutes ago, freakygeniuskid said:

Ryan Leaf had severe mental issues and, yet again, was never technically good enough to be a #1 pick, he got drafted on physicality.

You can call them mental issues if you want. The dude was a hot-headed punk.

12 minutes ago, freakygeniuskid said:

Oh, hey look. More company for Josh Allen, Ryan Leaf ALSO never completed more than 56% of his passes in college (topped out at 55.4% his last year)!

I despise Josh Allen. That's fine if you want to make that comparison. 

12 minutes ago, freakygeniuskid said:

Your listed examples are literally a case for why to not draft Josh Allen, neither of them share characteristics in their on-field play with Mayfield.

Mayfield is a lot more JFF than Russell Wilson. I don't care if I get pounded for that statement...I'll stand by that until he proves me otherwise.

[FGK]

40 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

You're certainly entitled to your opinion. I get that you're a huge Baker Mayfield fan and if I was, I'd probably say the same.

Correct, I didn't deny as much.

A few things. I didn't just call Baker a hot-head, I also implied that I'm genuinely concerned about other off the field incidents, immaturity, and fear he's also a party animal. As for your above comment, I 100% disagree with this to the point that I'd call it ludicrous as well. Ryan Leaf=complete hot head,  the same with Lawrence Phillips, etc. 

Maybe I didn't make myself clear. I didn't say Russell flamed out because he was a hot-head, I said that he flamed out (or meant to say anyway) because he was LAZY and didn't take football seriously, which I worry about Mayfield when it comes to the above mentioned party boy lifestyle.

You can call them mental issues if you want. The dude was a hot-headed punk.

I despise Josh Allen. That's fine if you want to make that comparison. 

Mayfield is a lot more JFF than Russell Wilson. I don't care if I get pounded for that statement...I'll stand by that until he proves me otherwise.

Concern with the "other off-field incidents" (all one of them, rumors otherwise) is fine. But your main push was the "hot-head" label, I was trying to illustrate that being a hot-head is never the primary reason for someone flopping in the NFL. If it is part of the cause, it's invariably because it is a symptom of a deeper issue.

I have no idea why you keep talking about the "party boy" mentality with Mayfield. It's entirely unsubstantiated, and all of the substantiated info, from teammates and coaches, is that he's a ridiculously hard working kid who loves football and wants to win every time he steps on the field. You don't go from a two-time walk on to the star QB of one of the best offenses in college football by being a lazy person, it just doesn't happen.

Ryan Leaf had legit mental issues! He was a hot headed punk because he had serious mental health issues! Like, to the point where this feels like a super-insensitive comment. The guy works full-time now trying to help raise awareness for mental illness and addiction recovery because it took him years post-NFL to put his life back together.

Mayfield is JFF in that he's short, white... and that's about it. Better arm, not as scramble happy, didn't get bailed out by a top 5 WR draft pick constantly, and as far as anyone can tell, doesn't have an ongoing and worsening drug addiction.

Now, the drunk and disorderly arrest is concerning. Did he get hammered one night and make a dumb choice, or does he do that kind of thing regularly and just hasn't gotten caught? But until we here CREDIBLE evidence to support the idea, I'm okay leaving it as a concern, but not a crippling one.

[FGK]

43 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

MKC just seemed bitter he wouldn’t give her an interview iyam.

Yeah, MKC's whole demeanor this week has been incredibly unprofessional toward Allen/Mayfield. She has fawned over Allen and absolutely trashed Mayfield because Allen has spent more time with the media and Mayfield's quotes given to CLE reporters have been to the smaller publication base folks rather than her.

For God's sake, the woman criticized him relentlessly for being a day late because his mother was in the hospital. Good Lord.

[Reginaldm9]

I think it would be really cool if all of these QBs we were arguing over turned out to be amazing. :*)

[MWil23]

Just now, freakygeniuskid said:

Concern with the "other off-field incidents" (all one of them, rumors otherwise) is fine. But your main push was the "hot-head" label, I was trying to illustrate that being a hot-head is never the primary reason for someone flopping in the NFL. If it is, it's because it is a symptom of a deeper issue.

Not true. Dooshbaggery was another concern. Hitting guys in the head with footballs and general frat boy behavior.

Just now, freakygeniuskid said:

I have no idea why you keep talking about the "party boy" mentality with Mayfield.

Aside from his run in with the law, in which he was inebriated publicly, it's a gut feeling.

Just now, freakygeniuskid said:

It's entirely unsubstantiated, and all of the substantiated info, from teammates and coaches, is that he's a ridiculously hard working kid who loves football and wants to win every time he steps on the field. You don't go from a two-time walk on to the star QB of one of the best offenses in college football by being a lazy person, it just doesn't happen.

I remember similar stamps of approval from one JFF, in which I heard things like:

"He LIVES for football"

"He loves preparing"

"He just makes plays"

Just now, freakygeniuskid said:

Ryan Leaf had legit mental issues! He was a hot headed punk because he had serious mental health issues! Like, to the point where this feels like a super-insensitive comment. The guy works full-time now trying to help raise awareness for mental illness and addiction recovery because it took him years post-NFL to put his life back together.

Sorry if I came across as insensitive, it was not my intention. 

Just now, freakygeniuskid said:

Mayfield is JFF in that he's short, white... and that's about it.

And antics. No one can even question the similarity there, as most didn't suspect/know about the drug issues while he was in college.

Just now, freakygeniuskid said:

Better arm,

No gripe from me.

Just now, freakygeniuskid said:

not as scramble happy,

For the most part, I would agree. Although the Georgia/Iowa State games show otherwise.

Just now, freakygeniuskid said:

didn't get bailed out by a top 5 WR draft pick constantly,

Nah, just guys who were solid like Stills, Shepherd, and one of the best OL in the country for a two to three year period of time, although that argument cuts both ways from anyone in a blue chip program.

Just now, freakygeniuskid said:

and as far as anyone can tell, doesn't have an ongoing and worsening drug addiction.

Let's hope not for everyone's sake.

Just now, freakygeniuskid said:

Now, the drunk and disorderly arrest is concerning. Did he get hammered one night and make a dumb choice, or does he do that kind of thing regularly and just hasn't gotten caught?

Yeah, VERY concerning, especially considering the issues this team has had in the past. For me, it's almost a dealbreaker, but then again, I'm more conservative in that regard than most as I've seen what binge drinking does/can do to young people. Sometimes it's isolated and a phase. Sometimes, you CAN have a 20-21 year old undiagnosed alcoholic. See: Maurice Clarett and JFF.

Just now, freakygeniuskid said:

But until we here CREDIBLE evidence to support the idea, I'm okay leaving it as a concern, but not a crippling one.

Yeah, like I said, we'll agree to disagree. I do hope that you are right. I'm also not willing to gamble the entire franchise on it when I think that Sam Darnold is just as good if not better.

[Mind Character]

The idea that Baker Mayfield is exactly like or eerily similar to Johnny Manziel is idiotic and lazy.

The idea that Baker Mayfield is nothing like Johnny Manziel at all is equally as idiotic and lazy.

Many comparisons are overblown as their play styles are completely different, but that doesn't mean that there aren't some valid comparisons for which more digging and specifying the nature of the comparison helps to understand Baker as a prospect.

The real and valid comparison is that both Johnny and Baker have exhibited emotional immaturity and/or issues with self control.

The question then becomes what is the specific nature and depth and of those emotional immaturity and self control issues.

For Johnny, he was a known cocaine and alcohol abuser. He was a known party whenever possible guy that did not put in time in the film room but was electric on game day. Relationship-wise he was known for serious immaturity and anger issues coming out of college. Johnny exhibited a full spectrum disregard for self control and global immaturity. His competitive drive was beloved by teammates and was a rallying point to develop a winning culture.

For Baker, even beyond the "Cop tackling" incident, he is known for being a serious drinker per reports at Texas Tech and Oklahoma (we'll see how true they end up being). Under the influence his anger is known to get wild. At Texas Tech, he was the 5-0 starter who at 19 years old got benched for a lesser talent upon returning from an injury because of "commitment, immaturity, and issues controlling his anger" according to Kliff Kingsbury. Throughout his entire, career he has been known as a gym rat and a guy that puts in the time in the film room along with working with teammates. His relational maturity and emotional intelligence to be friends with guys from different socioeconomic backgrounds and experiences is really really good. Even currently at 22 years old he still has self-control and emotional control issues that go beyond the scope of competitive fire. He is still known to get a serious drink on. Ultimately, our investigative staff will have to see how systemic these issues are, but there are definitely some concerns if we consider taking in at the top of the board.

 

 

[duke2056]

2 hours ago, freakygeniuskid said:

WE HAD THEM AND YOU ALL APPLAUDED THEIR FIRINGS BECAUSE THEY WERE DOING WHAT THEY TOLD US ALL THEY WOULD DO.

Alright, regained control. You gotta put trigger warnings on these things, sheesh.

A nerd at QB..................at QB

But yeah, the front office nerds left us in a much better spot then they inherited.  They DID do what they said they would do, and we are and will be better for it.  We NEEDED what they did.  Kudos to them.  Sucks the new GM gets to take all the credit from this point on.

[Bonanza23]

2 hours ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

I think people see what they want to see with him.

Some folks won’t consider what he may do/did an issue, same as Manziel.

Others won’t hear any other narrative other than he’s a party boy or selfish or whatever.

MKC just seemed bitter he wouldn’t give her an interview iyam.

I don’t know it seems a little more than just that. It sounds like he dodged interviews with more than just her. Here’s the article with a couple quotes:

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2018/01/browns_john_dorsey_says_baker.html

Quote

"Baker has a pattern of disrespect,'' said one scout. "Off-the-field, he's Johnny Manziel.''

Said one coach: "He needs work. He's going to be a challenge."

Said one high-level NFL personnel executive: "He has not shown anywhere near enough emotional maturity to handle what's coming his way. ... A lot of Manziel characteristics."

The reason I say that is she puts in positive spins from Dorsey about Mayfield. If she were out to just dog the kid I don’t think she’d do that. Also looks like Allen went out if his way to give interviews. Just food for thought.