Random Packer News & Notes

[skibrett15]

38 minutes ago, vegas492 said:

Complete and utter homerism.  Dude hasn't even gotten to double digit sacks for a year in his career and you call that elite as an EDGE player.  

19 guys had double digit sacks last year.  

The next time Gary has 10, it will be his first time.  

11 EDGE guys had double digit sacks.  I wouldn't label all of them as elite guys, either.

He's very good, with room to be better.  And unknown due to injury status.

 

Gary is decidedly not an elite pass rusher.  He's a mid tier No. 1 pass rusher.  He has never, at any point in his career been a more impactful player than Za'Darius Smith was on the Packers.  The dropoff is noticeable and evident.  Both guys played with KC and Preston, and played together for Gary's first 2 years.

Gary has gotten incrementally better every season, but he hasn't really sniffed the Za'darius smith level of play, let alone the TJ Watt, Nick Bosa, Myles Garrett level of play that's considered elite today.

 

Gary is a worse player than Brian Burns, someone who most here don't really know much about, and will clap back at this saying it's a joke.  But it's not, and it's true.  Gary is not special, and Burns is not special, and Burns is still better.

[vegas492]

1 hour ago, Arthur Penske said:

Today I learned that Kyler Fackrell is elite and Rashan Gary is not.

The answer is neither.  But one of them could be.  Just is not yet.

You cannot be an elite EDGE without having a double dig sack year, or multiples on your resume.

[Mazrimiv]

Rashan Gary has zero double digit sack seasons, zero pro-bowls and has been named to zero all-pro teams.

If that gets him an "elite" label, we need a new term for players who are actually elite.

[Arthur Penske]

55 minutes ago, vegas492 said:

The answer is neither.  But one of them could be.  Just is not yet.

You cannot be an elite EDGE without having a double dig sack year, or multiples on your resume.

I get that but what you were saying was kind of advocating only double digits sacks are what make an elite edge.

[Sandy]

Last year before he got hurt Gary was on pace for 11.3 sacks. After a 9.5 sack season the year before, he's clearly getting better each year.

I wouldn't call that elite as a pass rusher, but there's a lot more to Edge than pass rushing.

Assuming he follows a normal trajectory for ACL recoveries, we may be calling him elite in January. He's just not quite there yet.

[R T]

They were a little heavy with safety population on the 90-man and Wiggins seemed the most likely to get the boot. 

 

[Leader]

 

[Packerraymond]

20 hours ago, skibrett15 said:

Gary is decidedly not an elite pass rusher.  He's a mid tier No. 1 pass rusher.  He has never, at any point in his career been a more impactful player than Za'Darius Smith was on the Packers.  The dropoff is noticeable and evident.  Both guys played with KC and Preston, and played together for Gary's first 2 years.

Gary has gotten incrementally better every season, but he hasn't really sniffed the Za'darius smith level of play, let alone the TJ Watt, Nick Bosa, Myles Garrett level of play that's considered elite today.

 

Gary is a worse player than Brian Burns, someone who most here don't really know much about, and will clap back at this saying it's a joke.  But it's not, and it's true.  Gary is not special, and Burns is not special, and Burns is still better.

"Of 100 edge defenders with at least 200 pass-rushing snaps, Gary ranked second in pass-rushing productivity and eighth in pass-rush win rate. He had almost as many pressures in nine games (38) as Preston Smith had in 17 (42). He also was fifth in PFF’s run-stop percentage"

Gary ranks ahead of Burns in most efficiency rankings for pash rushing, and is in a different stratosphere as far as run defense. For as confident as your post sounds, you don't provide a strand of evidence. Burns is a great pass rusher and a miserable run defender as an EDGE, 3/4 of his NFL seasons have resulted in sub 55 rush defense grades, all 4 of Gary's seasons are rated higher than Burns best as a run defender.

Burns is not a better player than Rashan Gary anymore, that take belongs in 2020. 

[craig]

22 hours ago, Old Guy said:

Kenny Clark, Devondre Campbell, Ja Alexander, Rashan Gary, David Bakhtiari, Elgton Jenkins, Aaron Jones. There are seven guys who play at or above a pro-bowl level and we have the 27th best roster in the NFL....

Not sure how good some of those guys will be moving forward. 

1. Devondre is kinda old for an ILB, and has not consistently played at a pro-bowl level.  He didn't last year.  Not sure how good he'll be?  Not sure a team can't be 27th best if one of it's really best players is Devondre?  
2. Clark, he's been good, and he's got a big contract.  But how special has he been last year, and will he be going forward?  Good solid player, but not really a pressure guy or a pocket-collapser.  And has he really been that immovable in run defense?  I like the man, and hope he's part of an excellent team.  But yeah, even a 27th team will still have some good players.  If Clark and Campbell are among your best, maybe that's not inconsistent with 8-9 or 7-10 record?  
3. Gary was good and solid.  Not elite.  When will he return, and for this season how good will he be?  He may miss a lot of season, and then be less than his former self coming back?  
4. Bakhti, he's been terrific pass-blocker.  Future, will that continue?  Who knows?

I'm an optimist and think we've got a chance to have a good season and a really fun, arrow-up season.  But I'm also totally on the "Who knows" train.  This is as "who knows" a team as any in the league.  

 

[Chili]

 

[Ragnarok]

34 minutes ago, craig said:

Not sure how good some of those guys will be moving forward. 

1. Devondre is kinda old for an ILB, and has not consistently played at a pro-bowl level.  He didn't last year.  Not sure how good he'll be?  Not sure a team can't be 27th best if one of it's really best players is Devondre?  
2. Clark, he's been good, and he's got a big contract.  But how special has he been last year, and will he be going forward?  Good solid player, but not really a pressure guy or a pocket-collapser.  And has he really been that immovable in run defense?  I like the man, and hope he's part of an excellent team.  But yeah, even a 27th team will still have some good players.  If Clark and Campbell are among your best, maybe that's not inconsistent with 8-9 or 7-10 record?  
3. Gary was good and solid.  Not elite.  When will he return, and for this season how good will he be?  He may miss a lot of season, and then be less than his former self coming back?  
4. Bakhti, he's been terrific pass-blocker.  Future, will that continue?  Who knows?

I'm an optimist and think we've got a chance to have a good season and a really fun, arrow-up season.  But I'm also totally on the "Who knows" train.  This is as "who knows" a team as any in the league.  

 

I agree with a lot of this.  Campbell had one All-Pro season and definitely took a step back last year.  Is Clark a top 10 DT anymore?  Donald, C Jones, Quinnen, Simmons, Dexter, Vea, Buckner, J Allen...that's 8 I would put above Clark for sure.  Agree on Gary, that injury happpened at the worst time for his development.  And who knows what Bakh has left or if he ever gets back to what he was.

Our D is full of highly drafted guys who took a step back last year(I'm not a Barry fan) and our OL has a lot of questions.  I am not an optimist in general, but if the OL gels and more of these defensive players take that step forward/get back to prior form, then this is a playoff team, even if Love isn't amazing. 

That said, PFF is garbage in general.  Their rankings, grades, percentages, etc are nothing more than fan opinion tied up in am expensive bow.

[incognito_man]

21 hours ago, skibrett15 said:

Gary is decidedly not an elite pass rusher.  He's a mid tier No. 1 pass rusher.  He has never, at any point in his career been a more impactful player than Za'Darius Smith was on the Packers.  The dropoff is noticeable and evident.  Both guys played with KC and Preston, and played together for Gary's first 2 years.

Gary has gotten incrementally better every season, but he hasn't really sniffed the Za'darius smith level of play, let alone the TJ Watt, Nick Bosa, Myles Garrett level of play that's considered elite today.

 

Gary is a worse player than Brian Burns, someone who most here don't really know much about, and will clap back at this saying it's a joke.  But it's not, and it's true.  Gary is not special, and Burns is not special, and Burns is still better.

How to say you box score scout without saying you box score scout

[incognito_man]

5 minutes ago, Ragnarok said:

I agree with a lot of this.  Campbell had one All-Pro season and definitely took a step back last year.  Is Clark a top 10 DT anymore?  Donald, C Jones, Quinnen, Simmons, Dexter, Vea, Buckner, J Allen...that's 8 I would put above Clark for sure.  Agree on Gary, that injury happpened at the worst time for his development.  And who knows what Bakh has left or if he ever gets back to what he was.

Our D is full of highly drafted guys who took a step back last year(I'm not a Barry fan) and our OL has a lot of questions.  I am not an optimist in general, but if the OL gels and more of these defensive players take that step forward/get back to prior form, then this is a playoff team, even if Love isn't amazing. 

That said, PFF is garbage in general.  Their rankings, grades, percentages, etc are nothing more than fan opinion tied up in am expensive bow.

Campbell's best football is likely behind him, but Walker's is in front of him. Ideally he earns the bulk of 3rd down snaps at that roster group.

Similarly, Wyatt needs to step up and be a mainstay on the DL and take away KCs pressure package snaps.

Campbell and KC are valuable veterans, but we drafted two guys who need to step up now.

[Ragnarok]

Just now, incognito_man said:

Campbell's best football is likely behind him, but Walker's is in front of him. Ideally he earns the bulk of 3rd down snaps at that roster group.

Similarly, Wyatt needs to step up and be a mainstay on the DL and take away KCs pressure package snaps.

Campbell and KC are valuable veterans, but we drafted two guys who need to step up now.

Definitely agree.  Walker also needs to stop getting kicked out of games.  I love the emotion he plays with, but he has to rein it in a bit.

We've also had issues finding that 2nd DL since the SB.  Once Cullen left, Raji was alone and no one stepped up.  Then we had Mike Daniels and not a ton next to him.  Now it's Clark in the same situation.  Hopefully Wyatt breaks that streak, but I didn't love him coming out last year.

[Leader]