Random Packer News & Notes

[ThatJerkDave]

2 hours ago, packfanfb said:

Yeess. Let's do this. 

Does that just put teams in California, the Seahawks, and the Bears at a disadvantage? Do they take their camps to out of state locations?

 

What can be done at OTAs and stuff? I was under the impression that full training/medical staff was around when these happened, should anyone get injured.  Do they do some jumping jacks and push-ups and call it a day?

[packfanfb]

17 minutes ago, ThatJerkDave said:

Does that just put teams in California, the Seahawks, and the Bears at a disadvantage? Do they take their camps to out of state locations?

 

What can be done at OTAs and stuff? I was under the impression that full training/medical staff was around when these happened, should anyone get injured.  Do they do some jumping jacks and push-ups and call it a day?

I think OTAs are basically a wash at this point. It's all about gearing up for training camp. Basically have the next 55-60 days to get everything ready.

[craig]

1 hour ago, ThatJerkDave said:

Does that just put teams in California, the Seahawks, and the Bears at a disadvantage? Do they take their camps to out of state locations?

Not sure what the facility-capacity is for the Vikings, but 25% capacity is max in Minnesota, and I assume some other states.  I imagine that might constrain use of some weight-rooms and team classrooms. 

Likewise some of that occupancy-allowance requires masks.  Not sure weight-room guys will love doing so with masks on...

Of course, we also understand that some humans don't necessarily follow every protocol......

[Leader]

Aaron Nagler -   So after the Mark and Laurie Murphy donated $240,000 toward COVID-19 efforts in Brown and Door Counties, they will now be donating $250,000 more to Wisconsin social justice groups.

[ThatJerkDave]

10 minutes ago, craig said:

Not sure what the facility-capacity is for the Vikings, but 25% capacity is max in Minnesota, and I assume some other states.  I imagine that might constrain use of some weight-rooms and team classrooms. 

Likewise some of that occupancy-allowance requires masks.  Not sure weight-room guys will love doing so with masks on...

Of course, we also understand that some humans don't necessarily follow every protocol......

Where is the weight facility? I mean, 25% capacity of 66,000 at US Bank Stadium is way more than they would need to get a practice in.

 

I would guess that they could stagger the times for weight training by position group and have less than 15 in the room at any time.  It might not be exactly what they want to do, but it should be an easy work around.  

[Leader]

Zach Kruse -   Packers put out a powerful statement featuring a dozen current players and then matched their words with action, donating a half-million dollars between the team and Mark Murphy to support local social justice/racial equality causes. A proud day for the franchise.

[Packerraymond]

If California delays the NFL season due to Covid restrictions, I'll be rooting harder than ever for it to become an independent island.

[Kepler]

24 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

If California delays the NFL season due to Covid restrictions, I'll be rooting harder than ever for it to become an independent island.

That might create jobs. You need a whole lot of people to saw it off.

[Packerraymond]

17 minutes ago, Kepler said:

That might create jobs. You need a whole lot of people to saw it off.

Or just the inevitable.

[Norm]

1 hour ago, Packerraymond said:

If California delays the NFL season due to Covid restrictions, I'll be rooting harder than ever for it to become an independent island.

NO PALITICKS

[Mr Bad Example]

On 6/3/2020 at 3:56 PM, Packerraymond said:

Cool and not cool at the same time. We'll never see a Gutey or Schneider again. Both WIAC guys that pounded the pavement until they got an internship. I interviewed for an internship back when I left my university after running the recruiting department for 4 seasons, Charlie Peprah got it. It's all about who you know now.

The scourge of the jockocracy lives on. 

[Chili]

Was bored so I decided to look at our Scouting department. 

Sam Seale was the west coast scout for 22 years before finally becoming our National scout.

Yet Charles Walls was an area scout for just 3 years and left to become the national scout for Cleveland. Wow, Fast track! He has unearthed some good talent such as Aaron Jones and Elgton Jenkins which added to his growing reputation. He's now the 3rd ex-Packer on the Browns front office joining Glenn Cook and Shaun Herock. Gotta make up for firing Dorsey, Wolf and Highsmith somehow!

It took Walls a while to get going as he was a scouting intern for 4 years before he finally got an area scouting gig. Compare that to Goodson he was a scouting intern for just 1 year before becoming an area scout. Brandian Ross took a little longer, first as an intern for one year, then as a scouting assistant before landing an area gig. 

The rate of progression is all over the place.  Goodson's progression is quite unusual when compared to our other scouts.

Richmond Williams had to wait 5 years to land an area gig,  Benuska and Hueber both took 2 years,  Owen took 3 years.

Interestingly Charlie Peprah is no longer listed on the Packers website. He was a scouting intern in 2016 then in 2017 he became the NFS. 2 years later it looks like he's no longer employed with us. It appears he's been replaced by Brett Thiesen in June 2019 so Peprah actually hasn't been part of our organisation for the past year! There was no announcement when he left. Very particular, especially since he's a former player. Its rare for us to have a scout that leaves in the middle of their development, they usually work their way up the ladder or they eventually move to a different team. Maybe he decided scouting wasn't for him after all or he was just simply fired.

The regions our area scouts cover are (I hope I got the states right!):

Luke Benuska [West Coast] - California, Oregon, Washington, Arizona, Hawaii, and Alaska
Demetri Goodson [Midlands] - Colorado, Idaho, Montana, Nevada, New Mexico, Utah, and Wyoming
Joe Hueber [Midwest] - Illinois, Kansas, Missouri, Indiana, Iowa, Michigan, Minnesota, Nebraska, North Dakota, Ohio, South Dakota, and Wisconsin
Patrick Moore [South East] - Alabama, Kentucky, Florida, Georgia, Mississippi, Virginia, West Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, and Tennessee
Mike Owen [North East]  - , Washington DC, Connecticut, Delaware, Maine, Massachusetts, Maryland, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, and Vermont
Brandian Ross [South West] - Arkansas, Louisiana, Oklahoma and Texas
Brett Thiesen [National Football Scout]

Our upper level management has experience in the following regions:

Brian Gutekunst [South East]
Milt Hendrickson [Midwest - With Ravens]
Jon-Eric Sullivan [Midlands 2008-11] [South East 2012-15]
John Wojciechowski [North East - with Cowboys] [South West - Packers]
Matt Malaspina [North East & South East - With 49ers & Seattle]
Richmond Williams [Midwest]
Lee Gissendaner [North East]
Sam Seale [West Coast]

 

When I have time I'm going to look at the players we drafted in recent years and see which scout scouted whom. It could be quite eye opening. It is their scouting reports which the management base their decisions on and how they rank the players.

Edited June 6, 2020 by Chili

[packfanfb]

Hey we're back....

[Arthur Penske]

On 6/3/2020 at 3:56 PM, Packerraymond said:

Cool and not cool at the same time. We'll never see a Gutey or Schneider again. Both WIAC guys that pounded the pavement until they got an internship. I interviewed for an internship back when I left my university after running the recruiting department for 4 seasons, Charlie Peprah got it. It's all about who you know now.

Fair point, but that’s like most other industries as well. Hard to beat out a guy who played in the NFL. 

[Chili]

I used the forum downtime to put together our area scouts draft picks. Trying to figure out which states for each region were mostly educated guesses. I'm not quite sure on places such as Kansas, Arizona, Mississippi and Louisiana so I may be wrong on them. I've gone all the way back to 2005!

Packersnews gave Walls credit for Aaron Jones but the area scout for the 2017 draft was Wojciechowski. It wasn't until after the draft when Wojciechowski got promoted and Walls landed the South West region gig. Walls held the gig for 3 years and with simple maths the writers naturally assumed he was involved with the Aaron Jones pick. What they should've done was count the number of drafts instead of counting the years. So his 3 years were 2020, 2019 and 2018 drafts.

Charles Walls was also credited for Elgton Jenkins but isn't Mississippi located in the South East region not South West? If that's the case then shouldn't the credit go to Patrick Moore? I've no idea.

In another Packersnews article they credited Ross who scouted the Midland region to a number of players drafted this year. This was clearly a mistake as those players were from the MIDWEST region so the credit should've gone to Hueber. Easy mistake to make.

Quote

Brandian Ross: Jordan Love

Mike Owen: AJ Dillion, Darnell Savage

Luke Bensuka: Jake Hanson

Patrick Moore: Jonathan Garvin, Elgton Jenkins

Charles Walls: Vernon Scott, Jace Sternberger, Kingsley Keke, Ty Summers

Joe Heuber: Josh Deguara, Kamal Martin, Jon Runyan, Simon Stepaniak, Rashan Gary, Ka'Dar Hollman, Dexter Williams, Josh Jackson, J'Mon Moore, EQ St Brown, Kendall Donnerson

At the moment its seems Gute loves players from the Midwest region. He clearly has a lot of trust in Heuber even though his draft record hasn't quite panned out yet. Hopefully with time his fortunes will turn around for some of those players.

Brandian Ross, wow! only one player from his region was drafted since he became the Midlands area scout and it just so happens to be Jordan Love. What a pick to start off his scouting career! 

I've noticed that the Packers tend to shy away drafting from regions where the scout is in his very first year on the job. Everyone on the list did not get their first draft pick until their 2nd year except Heuber. Did we discover a deliberate front office tendency for us to factor in the next draft? I guess that means we won't be drafting anyone from the Midlands next year. 

Bensuka is a former OL and how appropriate his first pick was an OL. He got big shoes to fill replacing Sam Seale.

I'm surprised by the lack of drafting activity of players in the South East region. I wonder why that is? If Elgton Jenkins was indeed scouted by Walls then what is Patrick Moore good for then? The South East region, SEC football where the best players in America resides and we're not jumping on any players based on Moore scouting reports. Something is not right and it needs to be fixed. Gute is a former long time South East scout and its somewhat shocking he hasn't dipped into his old stomping grounds more often.

Mike Owen appears to have made a solid start to his career with Dillion and Savage.

Charles Walls looks like he has done a reasonable job, he may have found some solid contributors for us. He has now left for Cleveland.

Looking at former area scouts this is what it looks like (Green is best pick, blue is solid contributor): 

Quote

Matt Malaspina: Jaire Alexander, Oren Burks, JK Scott, MVS, Hunter Bradley, Josh Jones, Montravious Adams, Kofi Amichia

Richmond WIlliams: Vince Biegel, DeAngelo Yancy, Jason Spriggs, Dean Lowry, Quinten Rollins, Jake Ryan, Corey Linsley, Jared Abbrederis, Jeff Janis, Micah Hyde, Nate Palmer, Charles Johnson.

John Wojciechowski: Aaron Jones, Malachi Dupre, Aaron Ripkowski, Christian Ringo, Demetri Goodson

Alonzo Dotson: Jamaal Williams, Devante Mays, Kyler Fackrell, David Bakhtiari

Jon-Eric Sullivan: Kennard Backman, HaHa Clinton-Dix, Khyri Thornton, Eddie Lacy, Josh Boyd, Sam Barrington, Davon House, Caleb Schlauderaff, Brad Jones

Lee Gissendaner: JC Tretter, Kevin Dorsey, Jerron McMillian, Andrew Quarless, James Starks, BJ Raji, Clark Harris, Will Blackmon, Kurt Campbell

Alonzo Highsmith: DJ Williams, Marshall Newhouse, Quinn Johnson, Jermichael Finely, Matt Flynn, Corey Rodgers, Jonny Jolly, Terrance Murphy, Mike Hawkins, Michael Montgomery

Many of these guys have been promoted to management positions or left elsewhere. It is a shocking list of draft failures and several of them are now working under Gute.  The questionable judgments of those scouts is very concerning as now they're the ones that will be filtering scouting reports from their area scouts and passing it up the chain. Gute, Wolf and Highsmith were the main guys under TT near the end of his tenure and the drafts in this period were absolutely shocking. Wolf and Highsmith eventually left but it did free up space for Malaspina, Wojciechowski and Sullivan. The jury's still out on them for now. I'm not so sure as to what they did to deserve being promoted when Gute became the GM. 

Lee Gissendaner was not leaned much on for players in his region. Many of his draft picks were late rounders, there were some years where not a single player from his region was drafted.  Raji was a no brainer - you don't have to be a good scout to spot that talent. It became clear he lacked talent for scouting, eventually he left to the Jets for 2 years. Gute rehired him as a Personnel Executive and transitioned Richmond Williams (another underwhelming scout) to the Pro Personnel side of things. I suspect that means they now scout NFL players instead of college players. So far it seems to be working.

Thankfully there are some scouts in the organisation that had solid track record as area scouts.

Quote

Sam Seale: Cole Madison, James Looney, Kevin King, Kenny Clark, Blake Martinez, Trevor Davis, Kyle Murphy, Damarious Randall, Ty Montgomery, Brett Hundley, Davante Adams, Richard Rodgers, Carl Bradford, Datone Jones, Johnathan Franklin, Nick Perry, Alex Green, Ricky Elmore, Lawrence Guy, Clay Matthews III, Brett Swain, James Jones, Desmond Bishop, Tyrone Culver, Aaron Rodgers, Marviel Underwood, Craig Bragg

Brian Gutekunst: Casey Hayward, Terrell Manning, Andrew Datko, B. J. Coleman, Derek Sherrod, Randall Cobb, D. J. Smith, Ryan Taylor, Morgan Burnett, C. J. Wilson, Jamon Meredith, Jarius Wynn, Brian Brohm, Pat Lee, Jeremy Thompson, Josh Sitton, Breno Giacomini, Justin Harrell, Aaron Rouse, David Clowney, DeShawn Wynn, Jason Spitz, Ingle Martin, Nick Collins, Junius Coston

Seale done a fantastic job with Rodgers, Matthews, Adams and Clark. He knows how to spot talent and has the trust of the organisation with his scouting reports. Hopefully he will continue to guide the Packers in the right direction.

Gute record is not bad. Sitton, Collins and Cobb were major hits but he had alot of duds too. When compared to Highsmith and Wolf he's clearly by far the best scout and comes as no surprise he became our GM. You could easily argue Seale should've been a GM by now but I suspect he has little interest in doing that as he's a scout at heart. He needs to be out there doing his thing.

There was one other guy with an excellent track record but he left the organisation to join Reggie McKenzie in Oakland. He's now with the Cleveland Brown as National Scout. He will be sharing the same role with Charles Walls.

Quote

Sean Herock: Jerel Worthy, Mike Daniels, Bryan Bulaga, Mike Neal, T. J. Lang, Brandon Underwood, Jordy Nelson, Brandon Jackson, Allen Barbre, A. J. Hawk, Greg Jennings, Abdul Hodge, Dave Tollefson, Will Whitticker

So in conclusion, I have some concerns with some of the staff under Gute with question marks with their ability to judge players. The area scouts look to have some potential but some are still new to the role which is not great for us in the short term.  The South East region needs to be looked at - we should be doing far more. 

During TT peak years his area scouts were highly experienced - Seale, Horock, Gute, Highsmith, all with at least 10 years on the job and he also had Dorsey and McKenzie as his right hand men. Gute doesn't quite have that luxury with his area scouts but at least he has surrounded himself with experienced scouts at management level.

Of course I have not looked at UDFAs and any players we may have had an interest drafting but was taken before our picks. If I looked at this data it may potentially change how a scout is currently perceived.

Edited June 6, 2020 by Chili