incognito_man Posted October 1, 2021 Share Posted October 1, 2021 It seems so obvious to me that @Outpost31 is right. Not because he's @Outpost31, but because the information is pretty inarguable. The only criticisms of this observation are primarily emotional ones because elite QBs are much, much easier to see, discuss, analyze and understand that the 2-6% "chaff" is on virtually no one's radar. Fans anyway. It's definitely on the radar of the best NFL decision makers. Tampa knew they weren't just signing Tom Brady. They were signing Tom Brady at an 85% discount, and could get 25% out of his remaining 15% due to his appeal to other talented players. Not only do you get elite QB play at a discount, but on top of that you get MORE value from the money saved simply by having Tom and his willingness to do this on your team. It's obviously attractive. Brady is the most brilliant long-term thinking QB in the history of the NFL. Hey may be the most intelligent long-term thinking athlete, period. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dubz41 Posted October 1, 2021 Share Posted October 1, 2021 3 minutes ago, incognito_man said: It seems so obvious to me that @Outpost31 is right. Not because he's @Outpost31, but because the information is pretty inarguable. The only criticisms of this observation are primarily emotional ones because elite QBs are much, much easier to see, discuss, analyze and understand that the 2-6% "chaff" is on virtually no one's radar. Fans anyway. It's definitely on the radar of the best NFL decision makers. Tampa knew they weren't just signing Tom Brady. They were signing Tom Brady at an 85% discount, and could get 25% out of his remaining 15% due to his appeal to other talented players. Not only do you get elite QB play at a discount, but on top of that you get MORE value from the money saved simply by having Tom and his willingness to do this on your team. It's obviously attractive. Brady is the most brilliant long-term thinking QB in the history of the NFL. Hey may be the most intelligent long-term thinking athlete, period. Looks like you're first in line for the open-mouth kiss from Tom Brady. Maybe he'll only stick it in 85%. Tampa Bay is NOT a building model you want to pattern yourself after. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted October 1, 2021 Share Posted October 1, 2021 2 minutes ago, Dubz41 said: Looks like you're first in line for the open-mouth kiss from Tom Brady. Maybe he'll only stick it in 85%. Tampa Bay is NOT a building model you want to pattern yourself after. ooo someone is upset! Tampa's model is brilliant. Here's the proof: I HATE Tom Brady, but this lesson is SO obvious I somehow end up defending him. That's how dedicated to facts I am. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatJerkDave Posted October 1, 2021 Share Posted October 1, 2021 (edited) How can you hate Tom Brady? I just don't get it. Jealous? Absolutely. Hate? Nah. The guy is Joe Montana with Dan Marino's stats. I bought a shirt with this last year: One of the 3 non-Packers NFL things I have. The guy is great. Embrace it. Edited October 1, 2021 by ThatJerkDave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted October 1, 2021 Share Posted October 1, 2021 1 hour ago, Dubz41 said: Bolded #1 - He's never been the most talented, he has been the biggest winner Super Bowl wise. But he has been paid his talent level. Bolded #2- The Bucs didn't win because of those additions. They won with a combination of defense and luck. I wonder if there is a way to uncover if the Super Bowl champs ever had a more fortuitous road of playing against two consecutive teams who lost their best OL at the crucial LT position? (KC lost both OTs) I understand your argument. It has valid points, BUT Brady is the exception. I still think we had the better team last year. The game was decided on two huge plays, the game was NOT decided by salary cap percentage of the starting QBs. If we had the better team last year, we would have scored the most points last year. Brady turned the ball over 3 times and we dropped a 4th interception. We scored like three points off those three turnovers. We weren’t the better team. They added Wirfs and Winfield in the draft. We added Love and Dillon. That’s because we had a franchise QB who got us the 20 somethingth overall pick and they had Winston the year before, which goes back to my point on draft capital. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packfanfb Posted October 1, 2021 Share Posted October 1, 2021 1 hour ago, incognito_man said: It seems so obvious to me that @Outpost31 is right. Not because he's @Outpost31, but because the information is pretty inarguable. The only criticisms of this observation are primarily emotional ones because elite QBs are much, much easier to see, discuss, analyze and understand that the 2-6% "chaff" is on virtually no one's radar. Fans anyway. It's definitely on the radar of the best NFL decision makers. Tampa knew they weren't just signing Tom Brady. They were signing Tom Brady at an 85% discount, and could get 25% out of his remaining 15% due to his appeal to other talented players. Not only do you get elite QB play at a discount, but on top of that you get MORE value from the money saved simply by having Tom and his willingness to do this on your team. It's obviously attractive. Brady is the most brilliant long-term thinking QB in the history of the NFL. Hey may be the most intelligent long-term thinking athlete, period. He puts winning above all else. That mindset goes a long way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packfanfb Posted October 1, 2021 Share Posted October 1, 2021 (edited) 43 minutes ago, Outpost31 said: If we had the better team last year, we would have scored the most points last year. Brady turned the ball over 3 times and we dropped a 4th interception. We scored like three points off those three turnovers. We weren’t the better team. They added Wirfs and Winfield in the draft. We added Love and Dillon. That’s because we had a franchise QB who got us the 20 somethingth overall pick and they had Winston the year before, which goes back to my point on draft capital. Tampa was the perfect storm: 1. Discount Brady 2. Absolutely killing the draft (with high picks in each round) in the last 4-5 years to build their core 3. Filling in every possible gap (and then some) with good veteran players once Brady was signed. They actually remind me quite a bit of a Ron Wolf mid-90s Packers team, even when you look at positional groups. The '96 Packers team had mostly draft picks in the secondary outside of Robinson, and a DL built completely through FA (White-Brown-Dotson-Jones). Bucs pretty much have the same - used draft to build secondary and ILBs and then FA to build DL outside of Vea (JPP-Suh-Barrett). Offensively, like the Packers, the Bucs WR core is mostly through the draft (added Brown while the Packers added Beebe/Rison) and they got their TE (Gronk) while the Packers added Keith Jackson (even with Chmura). Even the SB winning QB was acquired from the outside. Edited October 1, 2021 by packfanfb 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leader Posted October 1, 2021 Author Share Posted October 1, 2021 What did Richard Sherman do (?) or is accused of doing? He's got some off field hassles, but I'm not up on the details. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PACKRULE Posted October 1, 2021 Share Posted October 1, 2021 15 minutes ago, Leader said: What did Richard Sherman do (?) or is accused of doing? He's got some off field hassles, but I'm not up on the details. Nothing that TB cares about it's all winning for TB12. Brown accused of sexual assult, now this clown arrested a couple months back for domestic violence. Tom Brady recruits Richard Sherman to Bucs after his domestic violence arrest | Daily Mail Online Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packfanfb Posted October 4, 2021 Share Posted October 4, 2021 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
{Family Ghost} Posted October 4, 2021 Share Posted October 4, 2021 If the Packers and Rodgers had that Tampa/Brady mentality they'd also be walking around with a handful of rings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spartacus Posted October 4, 2021 Share Posted October 4, 2021 10 minutes ago, {Family Ghost} said: If the Packers and Rodgers had that Tampa/Brady mentality they'd also be walking around with a handful of rings. The suck for 5 years till you fill your team with talent and luck into a HOF GOAT QB right when the rest of your team is ready doesn't seem like a very viable strategy. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Striker Posted October 4, 2021 Share Posted October 4, 2021 (edited) On 10/1/2021 at 8:57 AM, Outpost31 said: You know how many points his defenses have allowed in Championship games? 23.6 points. You know how many points we've allowed in Championship games during Aaron's time here? 30.8 The last two Super Bowl winning teams that Brady has played on have allowed a COMBINED total of 12 points. Against the #2 and #3 DVOA offenses. Makes life pretty easy when you barely have to muster offense to win. Yes, I know they dropped 31 on Kansas City, but even then they could just grind it out thanks to a huge TOP advantage and a hilariously short field (I forgot the KC punter had two punts that went less than 30 yards) on their second TD. Edited October 4, 2021 by Striker 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted October 4, 2021 Share Posted October 4, 2021 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Spartacus said: The suck for 5 years till you fill your team with talent and luck into a HOF GOAT QB right when the rest of your team is ready doesn't seem like a very viable strategy. I agree they backed into the situation fortuitously. However, I think the broader point about continuously shuffling through young, cheap QBs or getting (somehow) a SB-caliber QB on some type of discount is preferable to rolling with a super high cap hit QB of any caliber. i.e. is 15 years of expensive Rodgers and consistent playoff berths but no titles superior to 2-3 cycles of "bad" and "elite"? The cyclical nature of the latter allows for additional talent acquisition that consistent winning prevents. I suspect there's some enlightening evidence both ways. The former is definitely appealing to owners from a consistency of cash flow/attraction standpoint. The latter may very well be a superior title-collection strategy. Edited October 4, 2021 by incognito_man 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Striker Posted October 4, 2021 Share Posted October 4, 2021 On 10/1/2021 at 11:20 AM, packfanfb said: Tampa was the perfect storm: 1. Discount Brady 2. Absolutely killing the draft (with high picks in each round) in the last 4-5 years to build their core 3. Filling in every possible gap (and then some) with good veteran players once Brady was signed. They actually remind me quite a bit of a Ron Wolf mid-90s Packers team, even when you look at positional groups. The '96 Packers team had mostly draft picks in the secondary outside of Robinson, and a DL built completely through FA (White-Brown-Dotson-Jones). Bucs pretty much have the same - used draft to build secondary and ILBs and then FA to build DL outside of Vea (JPP-Suh-Barrett). Offensively, like the Packers, the Bucs WR core is mostly through the draft (added Brown while the Packers added Beebe/Rison) and they got their TE (Gronk) while the Packers added Keith Jackson (even with Chmura). Even the SB winning QB was acquired from the outside. They also ran real pure with injuries with the playoffs/injuries. Smith being ruled out, Brees being basically a corpse, and then GB losing Bakh AND Veldheer being ruled out because of COVID and KC losing their LT in addition to the injuries they had already sustained on the OL. Of course, this year it seems like their entire secondary is dead so things do turn around quickly. Brady is one of the best, but he's also one of the, if not THE, luckiest of all time (and people should be more willing to acknowledge the significant factor that luck plays in a career...especially when it comes to sports with single elimination playoff formats like the NFL). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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