AkronsWitness Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 1 minute ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: I mean, you’re not wrong, our line was atrocious, but the guy has a track record going back before 2019. He didn’t suddenly forget how to coach OL. I’m guessing this is scheme fit more than anything, but idk. I assume this is because they are transitioning to a zone blocking scheme. Requires mobile and athletic OL that can pull and move well. Bitonio/Tretter fit that mold but nobody else does. I expect athleticism to be the #1 trait of any OL we draft, not size. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 1 minute ago, AkronsWitness said: I assume this is because they are transitioning to a zone blocking scheme. Requires mobile and athletic OL that can pull and move well. Bitonio/Tretter fit that mold but nobody else does. I expect athleticism to be the #1 trait of any OL we draft, not size. Forbes and Robinson as well. I’m not sure what scheme Chris Hubbard is suited for though. Maybe it hasn’t been invented yet? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AkronsWitness Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 11 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: Forbes and Robinson as well. I’m not sure what scheme Chris Hubbard is suited for though. Maybe it hasn’t been invented yet? He is suited for a backup role or rotational OT which is what he was in PIT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brooks1957 Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 I am telling you - I am totally on board with the hiring of Stefanski. But this irritates me. I think it is a HUGE mistake for a ROOKIE head coach to call his own plays just because he did it with success as a coordinator on his way to a head coaching position. Just because Sean McVay had success doing it - all others THINK that anyone can do it. It is inevitable that you get too involved in the minutia of the offense, and slight your other duties as head coach. Hue and Freddie fell on their face doing it. I hope and pray that Stef follows through on his promise that he will decide on that via what is best for the team. (Hint: Hire a true OC, Kevin.....) 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 20 minutes ago, brooks1957 said: I am telling you - I am totally on board with the hiring of Stefanski. But this irritates me. I think it is a HUGE mistake for a ROOKIE head coach to call his own plays just because he did it with success as a coordinator on his way to a head coaching position. Just because Sean McVay had success doing it - all others THINK that anyone can do it. It is inevitable that you get too involved in the minutia of the offense, and slight your other duties as head coach. Hue and Freddie fell on their face doing it. I hope and pray that Stef follows through on his promise that he will decide on that via what is best for the team. (Hint: Hire a true OC, Kevin.....) I don’t disagree. I realize that plenty of Hc’s do it, and he’s a smart guy and can likely handle it, but for once I wish we just did the obvious thing and hire an OC. At least for a year or two. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mind Character Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: I don’t disagree. I realize that plenty of Hc’s do it, and he’s a smart guy and can likely handle it, but for once I wish we just did the obvious thing and hire an OC. At least for a year or two. Agreed. The biggest thing it does is preserve belief and buy-in for the first year Head Coach's program through early times of adversity as when a 1st year HC struggles with play-calling as a OC/DC the team starts to doubt their overall competence and ability to lead. With an OC calling the plays for the HC, the young HC can always take over later and provide a spark or scape-goat the OC and get a second chance to rally belief in the plan going forward. How could Freddie tell the players that they have to stop making mistakes, improve, and be more accountable when the player's are thinking to themselves "well, you first coach..." In Cleveland where toxicity, doubt, and negativity looms over everything, more than any other places getting initial buy-in and lift off for the HCs program is extremely important. Stefanski needs an OC to help protect the lift off phase of the program. However, there is an opposite side of that coin where if a first year Head Coach achieves success as a play-caller out the gate it often fuels belief in the program and endears them to the players at a pivotal stage in the HC-Player relationship. It then serves for positive points that players can point back to when adversity inevitably comes down the line. Edited January 20, 2020 by Mind Character 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 12 hours ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: Forbes and Robinson as well. I’m not sure what scheme Chris Hubbard is suited for though. Maybe it hasn’t been invented yet? Hubbard would be ideal for the 💯 screen pass offense. I’d call it the “swinging gate offense”. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaWg_LB. Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 (edited) 15 hours ago, sdrawkcab321 said: Probably wants a zbs coach I too was in favor of keeping James Campen....but since we are not retaining him....the thing that would make me very happy is hiring Bill Callahan...... I would also like to see QB Coach hired Rich Scangarello...Keep Stump Mitchell as RB Coach/Run Game Coordinator, and then Bring in the young LeFleur from San Fran as the OC.... I already know were getting Joe Woods as the DC....I'd still like to see Andre Patterson brought in as Dline/Run Game Coordinator....keep Dewayne Walker as the DB coach....Bring in Rob Ryan as the LB's coach..... and bring in Romeo Crenell as a Sr. Defensive Assistantor OR bring in Mike Singletary as Sr. Def. Asst./LB's coach (if he would accept such a position).... Edited January 20, 2020 by DaWg_LB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FGK Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 I'm fine with Campen moving on. I wouldn't be angry about keeping him, but our line regressed overall this year, more than losing Zeitler justifies IMO. We have no evidence at this point of Campen being a good OL coach outside of GB, where we know that for a decade they were better at drafting OL than anyone else (largely because they USED ANALYTICS to identify late round OL targets that had the athletic ability required for their system). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReggieCamp Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 20 minutes ago, freakygeniuskid said: I'm fine with Campen moving on. I wouldn't be angry about keeping him, but our line regressed overall this year, more than losing Zeitler justifies IMO. We have no evidence at this point of Campen being a good OL coach outside of GB, where we know that for a decade they were better at drafting OL than anyone else (largely because they USED ANALYTICS to identify late round OL targets that had the athletic ability required for their system). On a related note, it seems that the Vikings have used analytics as much as anyone in the league (in both drafting and game planning). It still is strange that Zimmer is staunchly old school and seems to take periodic shots at the analytics crew. I guess it's no wonder that there were rumblings that Minny was thinking of parting ways with Zimmer. Anyway, we'll see how this coaching staff rounds out. It's nice to see that we're bring in some guys with experience cuz we're gonna need it. New coaches mean new systems and new personalities, and there will be plenty of opportunity for Browns-like buffoonery. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candyman93 Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 (edited) If I’m Stefanski and Depo. Do not rip out the nuts and bolts. Push for a playoff spot to establish credibility in the lockeroom. THEN you can start to remove guys that may or may not fit your culture. I feel like that’s something we’ve been God awful at. We just assume new guys will have credibility with players so they’re free to just do what they want. Then we start to lose and players don’t buy in. Winning is and always will be the ONLY thing that matters. Not the culture or system you want. I am really curious, how many first time HCs that didn’t have a winning record their first year, end up sticking around. Pete Carroll went 7-9 but made the playoffs his first year. In terms of super bowl winning coaches actively, it just Doug Pederson and he went 7-9. Edited January 20, 2020 by candyman93 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NudeTayne Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 9 minutes ago, candyman93 said: I am really curious, how many first time HCs that didn’t have a winning record their first year, end up sticking around. Not understanding why this question is only for first-time head coaches. Most every head coach hired inherits some level of dumpster fire or else the coach before them would not have been fired. There is generally a culture problem already there that needs some sort of direction. Almost no new head coaches win much in their first year, as most are coming into bad teams, in our case generally terrible teams. Often there is a new GM there, as drafting has been poor up to that moment as well. There is a lot to consider beyond being a first-time coach when a new head coaches hired to a team. Add on that many are getting hired on as the team is moving on from a quarterback and drafting a new quarterback, the setup for temporary losing is strong. Not sure if correlation equals causation here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candyman93 Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 There’s something to my argument of coaches winning fast. I’m just listing super bowl winners (not including Reid and Mcvay who both had winning records): Pete Carroll: 7-9, but made playoffs Sean Payton: 10-6 John Harbaugh: 11-5 Mike Tomlin: 10-6 Jon Gruden: 12-4, won super bowl, but he’s a weird example. Bill Belichick: 5-11, won super bowl in his 2nd year Doug Pederson: 7-9, won super bowl in his 2nd year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 28 minutes ago, ReggieCamp said: On a related note, it seems that the Vikings have used analytics as much as anyone in the league (in both drafting and game planning). It still is strange that Zimmer is staunchly old school and seems to take periodic shots at the analytics crew. I guess it's no wonder that there were rumblings that Minny was thinking of parting ways with Zimmer. Makes you wonder how many of the pro analytics guys there may choose to come here if people like Stefanski and Paton were the ones giving the analytics guys a voice? 28 minutes ago, ReggieCamp said: Anyway, we'll see how this coaching staff rounds out. It's nice to see that we're bring in some guys with experience cuz we're gonna need it. New coaches mean new systems and new personalities, and there will be plenty of opportunity for Browns-like buffoonery. Expect full buffoonery at all times and you’ll never be disappointed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 23 minutes ago, candyman93 said: If I’m Stefanski and Depo. Do not rip out the nuts and bolts. Push for a playoff spot to establish credibility in the lockeroom. THEN you can start to remove guys that may or may not fit your culture. I’d imagine this will be the idea. For whatever reason people hear analytics and think “great, now we’re gonna trade everyone and tank again...”, but that’s not where we are as a franchise. I expect character to be more of a concern than it was for Dorsey (who didn’t really concern himself at all with it tbh), but I other than that, this is full steam ahead with the goal being playoffs. 23 minutes ago, candyman93 said: I feel like that’s something we’ve been God awful at. We just assume new guys will have credibility with players so they’re free to just do what they want. Then we start to lose and players don’t buy in. I think players can identify losing because of a talent discrepancy and because you were out coached. We lost a number of games this past season where we had a clear talent advantage, and a team can spot that and will turn on those coaches quickly. When coaches do stuff like essentially scrapping what was practiced all week and start winging it on game day (as was reported about Freddie), players see that. When it works, great, they’ll love you, but when it doesn’t you’ll own that too. 23 minutes ago, candyman93 said: Winning is and always will be the ONLY thing that matters. Not the culture or system you want. Culture can bridge gaps when wins are scarce, but even that will crumble in before long. Winning is it, you’re absolutely right. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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