2021 Draft Talk

[SteelKing728]

16 hours ago, SemperFeist said:

The Vikings have finished with the most draft picks for 3 years in a row. 

We should be close to being the youngest team in the league then, right?

[vikesfan89]

1 hour ago, Snake Plissken said:

It is interesting a CB was not taken, especially when a few mocks had the team taking one in the first round.  The position was not an immediate need with Patterson, Danzler, and Alexander, but Zimmer must like guys like Boyd and Hand enough.  

I wonder if this means Hand is staying at CB 

[vikesfan89]

8 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

As an outsider, I'd give it a solid C+.  Trading down and still getting Darrisaw was HUGE.  I thought he was a top 14 pick, and it was a 50/50 chance he made it to the original Vikings pick.  Like the physical tools of Kellen Mond, but the history is stacked against him to be a Day 2 success.  Chazz Surratt is a solid LB.  Don't think he's anything special, but I think he's a passable starting LB.  Wyatt Davis is a plug 'n play OG, but I'm not sure he's offering much in the way of positional versatility.  I don't think he has the skillset to play OT, and I don't think he has any history of playing C.  Beyond that, I like Camryn Bynum as a S convert and ISM as a low-end #2, high-end #3 WR.

As long as Davis becomes a good starter,  it shouldn't matter that he can't play tackle or center.  We needed a guard and he should be able to jump into action right away. 

It's nice that the starting 5 will be set and there shouldn't be much debate on what positions they'll play now.  It's not a guarantee that Davis will start,  but at the very least I think it'll be a situation like when Hill started for O'Neal until O'Neal was ready

[viking]

1 hour ago, CWood21 said:

As an outsider, I'd give it a solid C+.  Trading down and still getting Darrisaw was HUGE.  I thought he was a top 14 pick, and it was a 50/50 chance he made it to the original Vikings pick.  Like the physical tools of Kellen Mond, but the history is stacked against him to be a Day 2 success.  Chazz Surratt is a solid LB.  Don't think he's anything special, but I think he's a passable starting LB.  Wyatt Davis is a plug 'n play OG, but I'm not sure he's offering much in the way of positional versatility.  I don't think he has the skillset to play OT, and I don't think he has any history of playing C.  Beyond that, I like Camryn Bynum as a S convert and ISM as a low-end #2, high-end #3 WR.

I think C+ is a little low for this Vikings draft, PFF graded us as a B+ (they also graded Green Bays as a C- btw)

In our draft we got:

2 starters on the offensive line

 Back up QB / QBOTF  (Chris Simms is high on Mond)

three rotational defensive linemen

a rotaional LB and safety

a Kick returner

TE3 & WR3/4

 

We got some top tier prospects to start and a ton of players to bring on slowly and develop. I think a draft like this is how NFL teams can build a team that wins consistently.

Edited May 2, 2021 by viking

[vikingsrule]

1 hour ago, CWood21 said:

As an outsider, I'd give it a solid C+.  Trading down and still getting Darrisaw was HUGE.  I thought he was a top 14 pick, and it was a 50/50 chance he made it to the original Vikings pick.  Like the physical tools of Kellen Mond, but the history is stacked against him to be a Day 2 success.  Chazz Surratt is a solid LB.  Don't think he's anything special, but I think he's a passable starting LB.  Wyatt Davis is a plug 'n play OG, but I'm not sure he's offering much in the way of positional versatility.  I don't think he has the skillset to play OT, and I don't think he has any history of playing C.  Beyond that, I like Camryn Bynum as a S convert and ISM as a low-end #2, high-end #3 WR.

We don’t really need Davis to have flexibility so long as he can play Left or Right Guard. He’s an excellent fit at RG and should allow Cleveland to move to LG where he should get some more help. Darrisaw and ONeil should be a good pair of Tackles.

I wasn’t a fan of what MN did with the earlier third round picks in Mond and Surratt. Mond is an okay developmental option, but the odds are stacked against him. I would have preferred more of an immediate contributor on defense such as a Safety. At least Mond has an appealing physical skill set, so I think he’s the type that is worth taking a gamble on if you don’t have to throw him into the lineup to soon. Just didn’t think it was the right move for the team right now. But Spielman was really high on him relative to the top QBs so I can’t fault him too much for taking a QB that may have starting upside. 
 

Surratt was just a bad pick in my mind. Not sure he physically can do the things Barr can do and a LB this early is only justifiable if you’re planning replacing Barr soon. Surratt looks like an Eric Wilson replacement, basically someone you want to work in on passing downs. Which I’m fine using a draft pick on for a niche role, just not this early. As mentioned above, Safety would have made more sense. I like Bynum, just not sure he can start right away at Safety.  

[SemperFeist]

46 minutes ago, vikingsrule said:

I like Bynum, just not sure he can start right away at Safety.

 But they don’t need him to. Smith and Woods are clearly the starters for this year. 

[Purplepride323]

4 hours ago, Snake Plissken said:

It is interesting a CB was not taken, especially when a few mocks had the team taking one in the first round.  The position was not an immediate need with Patterson, Danzler, and Alexander, but Zimmer must like guys like Boyd and Hand enough.  

Also Mike Hughes and Jeff Gladney are still on the roster. I think they’re betting on Mike Hughes having a career year and maybe they know something about Gladney’s situation that has kept them from cutting him from the roster so far. With all that said, we currently have 7 solid cornerbacks so I don’t blame them for not taking another one in this draft. Last year’s CB class was deeper/better and we picked 3 of them. Rick Spielman is a Draft God. 🙏🏼

Edited May 2, 2021 by Purplepride323

[CWood21]

1 hour ago, viking said:

I think C+ is a little low for this Vikings draft, PFF graded us as a B+ (they also graded Green Bays as a C- btw)

B-/C+ are what I'd consider an average draft.  You didn't do anything amazing, and you didn't blow the draft.  I really have no major issues with the draft.  You're getting two starting OL, but I'd argue that Wyatt Davis' value is more an indictment on the current Vikings' OL.  IF the Vikings had a more established IOL, that pick wouldn't be valued as highly.  As I've mentioned, the success rate on Day 2 QBs are slim.  Over the last 5 drafts (prior to last year's draft), we've seen 11 QBs go on Day 2.  Of those 10, we've only seen Jacoby Brissett develop into anything, and he's probably nothing more than stopgap QB.  Odds are Mond is more likely to not see the end of his rookie contract then he is of being a franchise QB.  Not sure I'm overly valuing a team who finds rotational big men.  Most teams rotate big men to begin with. 

[CWood21]

1 hour ago, vikingsrule said:

We don’t really need Davis to have flexibility so long as he can play Left or Right Guard. He’s an excellent fit at RG and should allow Cleveland to move to LG where he should get some more help. Darrisaw and ONeil should be a good pair of Tackles.

LIS, I don't have any real major issues with it.  But when you're talking about value with IOL, flexibility is the name of the game.  It's part of the reason why I believe Creed Humphrey "fell" down the board.  He's played C exclusively through his career at Oklahoma.  And damn well I might add.  But there's questions about his ability to play OG at the next level.  IF Wyatt Davis struggles at OG, what do you do with him?  He doesn't have the skillset to play OT, and he's got no history with C.  It's a solid albeit unspectacular pick.

1 hour ago, vikingsrule said:

I wasn’t a fan of what MN did with the earlier third round picks in Mond and Surratt. Mond is an okay developmental option, but the odds are stacked against him. I would have preferred more of an immediate contributor on defense such as a Safety. At least Mond has an appealing physical skill set, so I think he’s the type that is worth taking a gamble on if you don’t have to throw him into the lineup to soon. Just didn’t think it was the right move for the team right now. But Spielman was really high on him relative to the top QBs so I can’t fault him too much for taking a QB that may have starting upside. 

The Mond pick was a wasted pick IMO.  As I've mentioned countless times in other threads, Day 2 QBs rarely turn out to amount to much.  Realistic best case scenario, you've got yourself a high quality backup for the next decade.  The only Day 2 QB I was mildly intrigued by was Davis Mills, and I thought there was a better chance of him becoming another Garrett Grayson than Derek Carr.  Surratt was just a solid football player.  Doesn't have any standout tools, but he's someone you can get through a game with.  If you're a team that devalues the off-ball LB position, he's a solid value pick.  You get half of his rookie contract as a non-liability starter, you let someone else overpay him in FA.

 

1 hour ago, vikingsrule said:

Surratt was just a bad pick in my mind. Not sure he physically can do the things Barr can do and a LB this early is only justifiable if you’re planning replacing Barr soon. Surratt looks like an Eric Wilson replacement, basically someone you want to work in on passing downs. Which I’m fine using a draft pick on for a niche role, just not this early. As mentioned above, Safety would have made more sense. I like Bynum, just not sure he can start right away at Safety.  

My biggest issue with the Vikings' class is that they completely neglected the secondary, and they didn't really do anything to help their pass rush.  Pinning their entire pass rush on Danielle Hunter's healthy return seems like a recipe for disaster.  The Vikings are clearly going a similar route to the Packers targeting their IOL by throwing numbers at it.  And when you have a questionable pass rush, the last thing you want to do is have a questionable secondary.  And until that Gladney situation sorts itself out, I'm not sure I have a lot of faith in that secondary holding together.

[viking]

22 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

 

The Mond pick was a wasted pick IMO.  As I've mentioned countless times in other threads, Day 2 QBs rarely turn out to amount to much.  Realistic best case scenario, you've got yourself a high quality backup for the next decade.  The only Day 2 QB I was mildly intrigued by was Davis Mills, and I thought there was a better chance of him becoming another Garrett Grayson than Derek Carr.  Surratt was just a solid football player.  Doesn't have any standout tools, but he's someone you can get through a game with.  If you're a team that devalues the off-ball LB position, he's a solid value pick.  You get half of his rookie contract as a non-liability starter, you let someone else overpay him in FA.

 

 

Mond was a 3rd round pick in a stacked QB class. If he were in last years draft he would have been picked higher than love who you drafted in the 1st.

The vikings got this pick for "free" from the Jets, so taking a flyer on an athletic QB who has NFL arm talent is a very good draft pick - Even if he has a low probability of success.

[gopherwrestler]

8 minutes ago, viking said:

Mond was a 3rd round pick in a stacked QB class. If he were in last years draft he would have been picked higher than love who you drafted in the 1st.

The vikings got this pick for "free" from the Jets, so taking a flyer on an athletic QB who has NFL arm talent is a very good draft pick - Even if he has a low probability of success.

I’m not sure he would be picked higher than love. 

[Boda]

16 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

LIS, I don't have any real major issues with it.  But when you're talking about value with IOL, flexibility is the name of the game.  It's part of the reason why I believe Creed Humphrey "fell" down the board.  He's played C exclusively through his career at Oklahoma.  And damn well I might add.  But there's questions about his ability to play OG at the next level.  IF Wyatt Davis struggles at OG, what do you do with him?  He doesn't have the skillset to play OT, and he's got no history with C.  It's a solid albeit unspectacular pick.

The Mond pick was a wasted pick IMO.  As I've mentioned countless times in other threads, Day 2 QBs rarely turn out to amount to much.  Realistic best case scenario, you've got yourself a high quality backup for the next decade.  The only Day 2 QB I was mildly intrigued by was Davis Mills, and I thought there was a better chance of him becoming another Garrett Grayson than Derek Carr.  Surratt was just a solid football player.  Doesn't have any standout tools, but he's someone you can get through a game with.  If you're a team that devalues the off-ball LB position, he's a solid value pick.  You get half of his rookie contract as a non-liability starter, you let someone else overpay him in FA.

 

My biggest issue with the Vikings' class is that they completely neglected the secondary, and they didn't really do anything to help their pass rush.  Pinning their entire pass rush on Danielle Hunter's healthy return seems like a recipe for disaster.  The Vikings are clearly going a similar route to the Packers targeting their IOL by throwing numbers at it.  And when you have a questionable pass rush, the last thing you want to do is have a questionable secondary.  And until that Gladney situation sorts itself out, I'm not sure I have a lot of faith in that secondary holding together.

Couple things, sorry for not breaking it down & easier to read.

Wyatt Davis is a great pick especially where he was took & lets say you're hypothetical plays out & he can't play guard & has no where else to go.  Well he wasnt a 1st or 2nd round pick & should be pretty easier to get rid of but his upside is huge.  The man was projected 1st round & he ended up playing hurt & his stock dropped.

 

Now as for the secondary, why does it matter we didn't address it, we did so in FA.  Dantzler & Peterson will play the boundary & Mac will play the nickel role which he excelled at here just 2 yrs ago & from all Ive read/  he did just fine in Cincy as well.  We already have other players but if they still feel it needs more help theres a couple good vets still out there.  The only CB I even personally wanted them to address was at NCB.  We also still need to hear about Gladney & while Im not expecting him to play this upcoming year I still feel the Vikings are good at CB with Dantzler / Peterson / Mac / Hughes / Boyd / Hand / Bynum although for me personally both Hand & Bynum would be better at safety.  So I guess I just don't see the issues you're trying to say we have.  

Also If they really don't feel the Pass Rush or Secondary are okay there are FA's out there that could easily fix that.

CB - Sherman(although he might be signing somewhere) / Hayward / Kirkpatrick / Joesph

S - Sendejo(knows the system)

EDGE - Griffen / Okafor 

Im just saying if they're not comfortable with those positions but I completely trust Coach Patterson when it comes to that defensive line.

For me I think they're good outside of adding a veteran pass rusher who can be part of a rotation with Weatherly & Wonnum.

 

[Ozzy]

40 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

LIS, I don't have any real major issues with it.  But when you're talking about value with IOL, flexibility is the name of the game.  It's part of the reason why I believe Creed Humphrey "fell" down the board.  He's played C exclusively through his career at Oklahoma.  And damn well I might add.  But there's questions about his ability to play OG at the next level.  IF Wyatt Davis struggles at OG, what do you do with him?  He doesn't have the skillset to play OT, and he's got no history with C.  It's a solid albeit unspectacular pick.

The Mond pick was a wasted pick IMO.  As I've mentioned countless times in other threads, Day 2 QBs rarely turn out to amount to much.  Realistic best case scenario, you've got yourself a high quality backup for the next decade.  The only Day 2 QB I was mildly intrigued by was Davis Mills, and I thought there was a better chance of him becoming another Garrett Grayson than Derek Carr.  Surratt was just a solid football player.  Doesn't have any standout tools, but he's someone you can get through a game with.  If you're a team that devalues the off-ball LB position, he's a solid value pick.  You get half of his rookie contract as a non-liability starter, you let someone else overpay him in FA.

 

My biggest issue with the Vikings' class is that they completely neglected the secondary, and they didn't really do anything to help their pass rush.  Pinning their entire pass rush on Danielle Hunter's healthy return seems like a recipe for disaster.  The Vikings are clearly going a similar route to the Packers targeting their IOL by throwing numbers at it.  And when you have a questionable pass rush, the last thing you want to do is have a questionable secondary.  And until that Gladney situation sorts itself out, I'm not sure I have a lot of faith in that secondary holding together.

Neglected the secondary?  What are you talking about, Bynum is a very promising safety and if safety does not work out he is a very smart corner with good ball skills.  Not to mention they already got Patrick Peterson, Mac Alexander and Xavier Woods for the secondary so not sure it is neglected this off season.  Sure Gladney's legal issues kind of put them maybe in a bad position but Mac Alexander coming back helps the depth a lot not to mention Patrick Peterson if he has anything left and I think he does.

Did not help the pass rush?  Patrick Jones II is a promising DE who can really collapse the pocket and has good hand usage and pass rush moves as a DE, Janarious Robinson is one of the most athletic freak shows at DE in the draft in terms of height and wingspan and overall athletic ability.  Oh and got Twyman one of the better pass rushing DTs in the entire draft and if he played this season and got say 10 sacks like he did the season previous, would be possibly a 1st or 2nd round pick.  

So what you are talking about in terms of did not help the pass rush and secondary, I have no idea at all.  

[NoDakViking]

Does anyone think that double dipping at DE signals anything about Hunter?

With Weatherly returning, who is perhaps average at best, and Wonnum hopefully improving, 2 might be overkill.  Maybe it's nothing more than "Can't have too many good pass rushers."  Or maybe it's just Hunter insurance. 

[CWood21]

37 minutes ago, viking said:

Mond was a 3rd round pick in a stacked QB class. If he were in last years draft he would have been picked higher than love who you drafted in the 1st.

I very much doubt that.  Kellen Mond probably would have been an UDFA last year had he declared.  He was awful as a junior.  We were talking about him being a potential position change candidate.  Not a potential first round QB.  A&M had the most team success with Mond throwing less.  He averaged over 400 attempts over his sophomore and junior year, and the Aggies went 17-9.  Mond threw less than 300 times and the Aggies went 9-1. That and a better defense helped A&M do so well last year.

 

39 minutes ago, viking said:

The vikings got this pick for "free" from the Jets, so taking a flyer on an athletic QB who has NFL arm talent is a very good draft pick - Even if he has a low probability of success.

It's not really "free" when it cost the Vikings the inability to draft anyone between their original pick and when they took Darrisaw.  You can attempt to rationalize however you want, but it's certainly not a "free" pick by any means.