Notable Stats

[TitanSlim]

Considering he didn’t become the full time starter until 2018 and he hasn’t even finished his third full season as a starter, this is pretty insane.

Has the same number of 150+ rushing yards and 2+ rushing touchdowns as Adrian Peterson.

[Bearerofnews]

hE's nOt eLiTe

 

 

[tyler735]

6 minutes ago, Bearerofnews said:

hE's nOt eLiTe

 

 

No disrespect to Allen he's a great WR, really like him a lot, just figured I'd mention Michael Thomas is sitting at 493 in first 68 games. He may beat that mark by about 100 catches when he hits 96 games.

[Bearerofnews]

2 minutes ago, tyler735 said:

No disrespect to Allen he's a great WR, really like him a lot, just figured I'd mention Michael Thomas is sitting at 493 in first 68 games. He may beat that mark by about 100 catches when he hits 96 games.

Not if Taysom is qb.

[Shanedorf]

1 hour ago, TitanSlim said:

Considering he didn’t become the full time starter until 2018 and he hasn’t even finished his third full season as a starter, this is pretty insane.

Has the same number of 150+ rushing yards and 2+ rushing touchdowns as Adrian Peterson.

Its awesome watching that dude when he gets rolling. Henry takes away the defense's manhood -  and that's as bad as it gets in the NFL
Not looking forward to our December 27th match-up

[iknowcool]

11 minutes ago, Bearerofnews said:

hE's nOt eLiTe

 

 

I mean... is he though?  He's a very good WR, but elite?  I don't see it.  He's never topped 10 touchdowns.  Only surpassed more than 1200 receiving yards once in a season.  

I really don't see an argument for him being elite.  I can't think of a single-season where I thought of him as being top 5 at his position.  

[Forge]

3 minutes ago, iknowcool said:

I mean... is he though?  He's a very good WR, but elite?  I don't see it.  He's never topped 10 touchdowns.  Only surpassed more than 1200 receiving yards once in a season.  

I really don't see an argument for him being elite.  I can't think of a single-season where I thought of him as being top 5 at his position.  

You don't want to go down this road 🤣🤣

[tyler735]

8 minutes ago, Bearerofnews said:

Not if Taysom is qb.

Thomas had 9 catches and 100+ yards with Taysom just over a week ago. That said Taysom likely won't be our QB much longer will be Brees or Winston soon

[Forge]

13 minutes ago, tyler735 said:

Thomas had 9 catches and 100+ yards with Taysom just over a week ago. That said Taysom likely won't be our QB much longer will be Brees or Winston soon

Are they really going to go to Winston? I feel like I would be very surprised if they do that. 

[Bearerofnews]

5 hours ago, iknowcool said:

I mean... is he though?  He's a very good WR, but elite?  I don't see it.  He's never topped 10 touchdowns.  Only surpassed more than 1200 receiving yards once in a season.  

I really don't see an argument for him being elite.  I can't think of a single-season where I thought of him as being top 5 at his position.  

You are looking at single season barometers as an indicator of elite. "A season with" a season doesn't make someone elite.

Unless KA gets hurt this year or completely drops off. He is going to avg 100 receptions, 1200 yds and 7 tds a season the past 4 years. This with being top 2 route runner, top 2 third down receiver.

If we look at last 3 years, not even counting this year, which outside of MT, 3 of these 4 WRs will be the only ones to hit 4 consecutive seasons as only guys with atleast 85 recs, 1100 yds and 6 tds in all 3 (soon to be 4 years)

Julio, Nuk and Keenan. 

Even if we just look at totals. Last 4 years, counting this year Keenan is top 4 in recs and yds. TDS; him and Julio rank outside top 15. Allen also has higher catch rate than Julio and Nuk past 4 years.. only MT has higher.

So i just don't see an argument how he isn't. Unless the argument is single season "highs" or high mark for tds. Which Julio doesn't have either. Also, Allen is on pace to finish with 125 rec, 1300 yds and 10 tds with Herbert.

Consistency matters in determining elite players, atleast for me.

Edited December 2, 2020 by Bearerofnews

[Bearerofnews]

5 hours ago, tyler735 said:

Thomas had 9 catches and 100+ yards with Taysom just over a week ago. That said Taysom likely won't be our QB much longer will be Brees or Winston soon

I can't see Brees playing next year. I mean i expect MT to exceed the mark. But man, the future is so unstable and volatile for the Saints with their cap situation next year.

[Jlowe22]

8 hours ago, Bearerofnews said:

Not if Taysom is qb.

MT is the perfect receiver to force feed for a guy that can’t read defenses like Taysom.

[tyler735]

8 hours ago, Forge said:

Are they really going to go to Winston? I feel like I would be very surprised if they do that. 

I think so unless Brees comes back after this weeks game. I feel like they are going to give Hill a short leash this week. Had we not been in one of the most bizarre situations I can recall of playing a team without a QB last week, I don't know that we come away with a win last week with Hill at QB. He looked really bad passing the ball. Took forever to go through reads, held the ball too long, wasn't very accurate when he did throw. Can't imagine Sean Payton lets that fly very long if it doesn't drastically improve this week. 

[MikeT14]

9 hours ago, iknowcool said:

I mean... is he though?  He's a very good WR, but elite?  I don't see it.  He's never topped 10 touchdowns.  Only surpassed more than 1200 receiving yards once in a season.  

I really don't see an argument for him being elite.  I can't think of a single-season where I thought of him as being top 5 at his position.  

Where's that "Hall of Very Good" thread? 😆

[iknowcool]

4 hours ago, Bearerofnews said:

You are looking at single season barometers as an indicator of elite. "A season with" a season doesn't make someone elite.

No, but to not have a single season where I can sit back and say, "man, he was truly elite this year," stops me from calling you elite.  And when I watch Allen play, and go back and look at the numbers, he's a possession receiver.  Great route-runner, like you said.  Good hands.  But he's not making a lot of plays downfield.  His longest catch this year is 28 yards.  That's pretty disappointing for a #1 receiver with a strong-armed QB.  And it explains his reception totals too (along with his catch %), which is about the main thing he's got going for him.  

According to rotowire, Allen's average depth of target is 7 yards this season.  By comparison, DJ Moore's is 12.2.  Jones' is 11.3.  Hopkins is 8.6 (Hopkins in a way fits the possession receiver mold too, but he's more versatile/flexible than Allen is and I also think he's suffering from Murray and Kingsbury's offense... still having a great season though).  Thielen's is 12.8.  Evans' is consistently in the teens, with 11.9 this year and over 15 the last 2 years.  So on and so forth.  Even Thomas hasn't had a lower mark than 7 yards in his last 3 seasons, with his lowest being 7.7.  I'm not saying what Allen does is easy, because there is importance to being a possession receiver, but it's completely unfair to compare his reception totals and catch % to most other receivers.  To be fair, last year he was at 10 yards, but the year before that he was back at 8.6.  And so when you look at it from that POV, you say alright, he's a possession receiver.  But is he the best possession receiver in the game?  Nah.  Hopkins is better.  I'm definitely taking Thomas over him too.  Davante Adams fits that mold too, you could say.  And he's better than Allen as well.

And those guys have had seasons where I would consider them elite.  Take your pick of Hopkins seasons.  Michael Thomas last year.  Take your pick of Jones' seasons.  Adams this year.  Yeah, I get your point about consistency.  But that, to me, helps establish you as a very good player.  But to be elite, you need to branch out.  You need to make noise.  Allen's never had that.  He's just had a bunch of strong seasons.  But you can't just throw around the word 'elite' for that.  

I like Allen a lot, so not trying to hate on him.  He's a good receiver.  But there's just so many good receivers in the NFL today, that to be elite, you need to have proven you can be dominant throughout an entire season.  And that just ain't Allen.  He's a consistently great route-runner with strong hands.  But that ain't enough for me to call you elite nowadays.  Hell, Justin Jefferson as a rookie is already on track for a season better than Allen has ever had.  D.K. Metcalf, you could argue, has already had a better season than Allen has ever had and he's still got 5 games left in his campaign.  That's another reason why I don't agree with your standard of "only such and such have hit these specific stats in such and such time."  Because it ignores the incoming group of receivers too.  The aforementioned Jefferson and Metcalf, then you got guys like AJ Brown, DJ Moore, Scary Terry, Tyreek.  Not saying he is or isn't better than some of those receivers, but I don't think he's ever had a season any of them aren't capable of matching, and some already have.  Hence why it's important to have one of those seasons, not just be consistent.

And this is a standard I apply to any position.  Being top 5 doesn't automatically make you elite in my book.  But not being top 5?  You don't even have an argument for being elite IMO.  And I just don't see how Allen is top five.  He's not better than Julio, Hopkins, or MT.  He's nowhere close to being the game-changer Tyreek is.  At best he's in the mix for #5 with a bunch of other guys, like Evans, Adams, Metcalf, and so on and so forth... but me, personally, I'm not taking him over any of those three.  And then you got those guys I mentioned earlier moving their way up in the rankings.  

Edited December 2, 2020 by iknowcool