2021 Broncos Forum College Prospects Thread

[broncosfan07]

10 hours ago, AKRNA said:

Perfect! That's a game that was won in the trenches as most are. Domination on both sides of the LOS, strong running game and great defense. Brady was Brady, masterful at executing the offense.

Anyway, that's how you dominate the Chiefs. Solid, ball control offense and smothering defense. That's how you build a team.

That's why we need to get Vic some talent on the D side. Watching White, that's why I'd consider trading up for Parsons.

Anyway, I do hope this ends the Watson talk. Trying to build an offense like the Chiefs won't beat them. You can't win a track meet with that team. 

You do need points to win. I have no doubt Broncos could’ve held the Chiefs to 9 points and Lock would’ve only put up 7 and lost the game. You don’t have to have video game numbers but you do need to be able to move the ball and score. Bucs won that with defense but also an offense that didn’t put itself in 3rd and longs and also ran the ball and didn’t force the ball. 

Chiefs lost the field position battle badly thanks to a punter who might’ve had the worst game by a punter since Todd Sauerbraun.

[grizmo78]

5 hours ago, thebestever6 said:

Idk how you watched that game and took away this thought lol the bucs are stacked their front 7 is amazing all those weapons if anyway it had me thinking the other way. If you switch Brady and Mahomes yesterday I still think it's a blowout Tampa maybe even worse tbh.

Of course that team is stacked... I’m not saying it isn’t. And definitely if Mahomes was TBs QB it would have been a worse blowout. Not sure what you’re disagreeing with me on...

[broncos67]

12 hours ago, AKRNA said:

Perfect! That's a game that was won in the trenches as most are. Domination on both sides of the LOS, strong running game and great defense. Brady was Brady, masterful at executing the offense.

Anyway, that's how you dominate the Chiefs. Solid, ball control offense and smothering defense. That's how you build a team.

That's why we need to get Vic some talent on the D side. Watching White, that's why I'd consider trading up for Parsons.

Anyway, I do hope this ends the Watson talk. Trying to build an offense like the Chiefs won't beat them. You can't win a track meet with that team. 

This true, but underscores a few points. KC's OL was decimated. Even though Tampa owned them, you do have to wonder whether it would have been a little different if the OL was healthier. I agree with you- trench play and a good defense will get you far, but not having a good QB will still doom you. There's no reason Denver can't try and land Watson while still building an exceptionally strong D to compete in playoff time. Drew Lock plus a good defense isn't going to beat Mahomes.

[AKRNA]

8 hours ago, thebestever6 said:

Idk how you watched that game and took away this thought lol the bucs are stacked their front 7 is amazing all those weapons if anyway it had me thinking the other way. If you switch Brady and Mahomes yesterday I still think it's a blowout Tampa maybe even worse tbh.

Or another way to look at it. How many NFL QB's could have led KC to victory? That's easy, none.

Ask the same question of TB. I'd say at least 15-20 if not more.

Brady's ability to bring out the best in his team, really an unparalleled leader, is his legacy. He's why the Bucs got here. He's not why they won yesterdays game.

Not one of the other QB's I've seen mentioned, Rogers, Mahomes, etc, have that ability. To think Watson could have a Brady like effect on a team is a pipe dream.

[BroncoBruin]

This was not so different from last year’s game. The 49ers clearly had the more balanced and talented roster, especially in the front 7. It showed for 3.5 quarters. Then Mahomes got hot and won the game. There are going to be games that no QB can win but there are also games only someone like Mahomes can win, last year’s Super Bowl being one of them.

[grizmo78]

1 hour ago, AKRNA said:

Or another way to look at it. How many NFL QB's could have led KC to victory? That's easy, none.

Ask the same question of TB. I'd say at least 15-20 if not more.

Brady's ability to bring out the best in his team, really an unparalleled leader, is his legacy. He's why the Bucs got here. He's not why they won yesterdays game.

Not one of the other QB's I've seen mentioned, Rogers, Mahomes, etc, have that ability. To think Watson could have a Brady like effect on a team is a pipe dream.

I don't disagree with TB not being the reason why they won that specific game but my point is, in order to build a team that can consistently have the opportunity to even be in the game, let alone win it, you need a top QB. That's not to say you can't win one without a top QB, but they are going to be far fewer in between. I'm also not saying Watson is going to come in and instantly turn us into contenders right away. But he will definitely give us the opportunity to be contenders in the future. Vs drafting an unknown, if he doesn't turn out, you're set back 3 years, then draft another unknown. 

Since 2000, here QBs who have started multiple SuperBowls (Brady, Mahomes, P. Manning, Wilson, Rothlesberger, E. Manning, K. Warner) With the exception of Eli, all of these are Elite QBs. 

Here are QBs who have started only 1 superbowl since 2000: (Garopollo, Goff, Foles, Ryan, Newton, Flacco, Kapernick, Grossman, McNabb, Delhome, Gannon, Johnson, Dilfer, Collins, Rogers). These are, for the most part, all obvious second tier QBs who gave their teams a chance, but all the right things needed to come together.

Again, you don't have to have an elite QB to win it as proven by the previous paragraph, but to have multiple shots at one, you're significantly better off with one. I'm not going to go too much farther down the rabbit hole, but curious how many of the QBs who started 1 superbowl, started multiple conference championship games. 

Heck, the best example of why an elite QB is worth sacrificing a couple years of draft, is Elway! He took garbage teams to multiple Superbowls. An elite QB can make up for the deficiencies across your team more consistently, for a longer period of time, than an elite supporting cast around a good QB. Again, the point is, an elite supporting cast is difficult to obtain, and when you do obtain it, is difficult to retain.  

We might be arguing different things though... Idk. 

Edited February 8, 2021 by grizmo78
Fixed mistake that jsthomp2007 pointed out

[jsthomp2007]

I think Rogers has only started in one Super Bowl.  

[AKRNA]

32 minutes ago, grizmo78 said:

I don't disagree with TB not being the reason why they won that specific game but my point is, in order to build a team that can consistently have the opportunity to even be in the game, let alone win it, you need a top QB. That's not to say you can't win one without a top QB, but they are going to be far fewer in between. I'm also not saying Watson is going to come in and instantly turn us into contenders right away. But he will definitely give us the opportunity to be contenders in the future. Vs drafting an unknown, if he doesn't turn out, you're set back 3 years, then draft another unknown. 

Since 2000, here QBs who have started multiple SuperBowls (Brady, Mahomes, P. Manning, Wilson, Rothlesberger, E. Manning, K. Warner) With the exception of Eli, all of these are Elite QBs. 

Here are QBs who have started only 1 superbowl since 2000: (Garopollo, Goff, Foles, Ryan, Newton, Flacco, Kapernick, Grossman, McNabb, Delhome, Gannon, Johnson, Dilfer, Collins, Rogers). These are, for the most part, all obvious second tier QBs who gave their teams a chance, but all the right things needed to come together.

Again, you don't have to have an elite QB to win it as proven by the previous paragraph, but to have multiple shots at one, you're significantly better off with one. I'm not going to go too much farther down the rabbit hole, but curious how many of the QBs who started 1 superbowl, started multiple conference championship games. 

Heck, the best example of why an elite QB is worth sacrificing a couple years of draft, is Elway! He took garbage teams to multiple Superbowls. An elite QB can make up for the deficiencies across your team more consistently, for a longer period of time, than an elite supporting cast around a good QB. Again, the point is, an elite supporting cast is difficult to obtain, and when you do obtain it, is difficult to retain.  

We might be arguing different things though... Idk. 

It's quite a rabbit hole, that's for sure. Many different points of view and opinions on how to build a roster. I'm just of the opinion that defenses win championships. I agree with a lot of the cliches, "run the ball/stop the run", "the game is won or lost in the trenches" etc. 

I think we're entering an era where good FA QB's will start to be more and more common. The cost to retain them is just too prohibitive. 

I like what we're doing with our roster. Our OL has the potential to be very good next year. Our skill players could be something. We showed at the end of the year our running game could be  a force. This is a unit that'll be together for a few years. A little improvement on Locks part and the entire O could be pretty "old school" good.

Vic has dialed up good defenses with limited personnel. Give him some better pieces and watch out. 

[grizmo78]

18 minutes ago, AKRNA said:

It's quite a rabbit hole, that's for sure. Many different points of view and opinions on how to build a roster. I'm just of the opinion that defenses win championships. I agree with a lot of the cliches, "run the ball/stop the run", "the game is won or lost in the trenches" etc. 

I think we're entering an era where good FA QB's will start to be more and more common. The cost to retain them is just too prohibitive. 

I like what we're doing with our roster. Our OL has the potential to be very good next year. Our skill players could be something. We showed at the end of the year our running game could be  a force. This is a unit that'll be together for a few years. A little improvement on Locks part and the entire O could be pretty "old school" good.

Vic has dialed up good defenses with limited personnel. Give him some better pieces and watch out. 

We can agree to disagree  although I don't necessarily disagree with a lot of what you say either. 

The nfl is interesting given it didn't used to follow college trends quite as much as it does now. I think with the way the game is being officiated now is making it much much closer to what the college game is. Here is an article about Nick Saban basically admitting offense wins in the college game. I'll leave it at that though and we can get the topic back on track of college prospects. 

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/30177093/alabama-crimson-tide-nick-saban-concedes-defense-no-longer-key-victory

[AKRNA]

2 hours ago, BroncoBruin said:

This was not so different from last year’s game. The 49ers clearly had the more balanced and talented roster, especially in the front 7. It showed for 3.5 quarters. Then Mahomes got hot and won the game. There are going to be games that no QB can win but there are also games only someone like Mahomes can win, last year’s Super Bowl being one of them.

Very fair statement.

[The Helicopter]

Teams with an elite QB are consistently in the running for a SB. Those without are flashes in the pan.

[grizmo78]

So Paton served as the right hand man for Rick Spielman who is known for trading down in the draft. If Paton follows suit and ends up trading down to say Pick 15-20 or so. Who would your early targets be right now?

I would advocate for Kwity Paye (as athletic as they come. Reminds me of Danielle Hunter, where he didn't have as much production coming out), Christian Barmore (Still so young and has shown ability to take over a game), Jaycee Horn (Aqib Talib esque that can match up with TEs if needed?), and Zaven Collins (Better AJ). It's almost a shame we have invested so much into the O-Line already as this draft is deep with O line talent and mid 20s seems to be a great spot for them. 

Edited February 11, 2021 by grizmo78

[jsthomp2007]

On 2/9/2021 at 9:56 AM, The Helicopter said:

Teams with an elite QB are consistently in the running for a SB. Those without are flashes in the pan.

why just flash in a pan when you can flash just about anywhere?

[thebestever6]

Is Najee Harris similar to Derrick Henry at all?

[grizmo78]

Alim McNeill looks like an interesting Dlineman as well in the 2nd round.