Hunter2_1 Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 56 minutes ago, SkippyX said: FYI - They are both fighting for 3rd place behind Ruth and Gretzky. Ruth was the best pitcher on 2 WS Champ Red Sox teams. He was the best hitter on 5 Yankees WS Champs. Ruth has the 17th lowest ERA of any pitcher Ruth is #1 in WAR Ruth is #1 in slugging Ruth is #1 in OPS He was 10th in batting average He had about a 400 home run lead on anyone from his era He is still #1 at home runs per at bat by 2 at bats when eliminating steroid cheats McGuire and Bonds. Ruth is like if Tom Brady and Ronnie Lott were the same 2-way player. Gretzky has more assists than any other NHL player has points. He is also #1 in goals by about 90 He is #1 in +/- for forwards He is 4th overall but defenseman in the NHL play about 30-45% more per game People on occasion make idiotic comparisons to Bossy or Orr if you only take his career up to the number of years those guys played it is no contest Gretzky has the top 2 goal scoring seasons He has 4 of the top 11 goal scoring seasons The guy he is tied at with at number 10 is Kurri who scored so much because Gretzky fed him. Gretzky has the top 7 assist seasons. He also has 11 of the top 13 assist seasons Gretzky has the top 4 points seasons He also has 9 of the top 11 points seasons He is #1 in all 3 categories in the playoffs and leads in points by 82 He has the top single playoff season point mark 4 of the top 5 No player besides Ruth has a greater talent and production gap in any of the 4 major sports. Gretzky has 48.7% more points than the guy at #2 (Jagr) and Jagr played 6 more years than Gretzky F me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkippyX Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 10 minutes ago, Hunter2_1 said: F me. I have a weird obsession with sports stats and those guys are a gold mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBLIII Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 1 hour ago, BayRaider said: MJ is the Team Sports GOAT without question imo. No one comes close at the moment, definitely not LeBron (smh at people even thinking that), but if Brady can win both a MVP and a Super Bowl on the Bucs, I think they would be close, like neck and neck, but still Jordan. If Brady can win two Super Bowls on the Bucs (99% not happening), I’d say they are tied, and dare I say, even a slight advantage to Brady. As of right now, I’d still put Brady #2, but it’s like not close at all. Jordan doesn't win one without Pippen. Brady got it done with a lot of different supporting casts...I'll take Gretzky over Jordan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancerman Posted November 1, 2020 Share Posted November 1, 2020 4 hours ago, BayRaider said: Disagree. You are clearly measuring by championships only which is flawed. Jordans six titles were flawless. The flip side to this is a basketball world championship is much easier a feat than a Super Bowl. Jordan has 4 titles if the first game of the NBA Finals decided everything. He loses his first and last. Then if you go deeper into it he lost game one of the EC semi finals for his 2nd title and game one of the ECF for his third. So if it was the same structure as the NFL Jordan only gets 2 titles with the variation of the possibility that at some point in the 80’s he could have upset better teams. But this is a huge reason why Russell has 11, Kareem has 6, Kobe and Magic have 5, and Lebron and Shaq have 4. Its a sport built to make sure the best will come out on top. I also would argue that Brady unlike Jordan won with completely different supporting casts. Brady also has the edge on longevity and is going to finish leading in TD’s and probably yards once Brees is done. Either way it’s kinda dumb to compare sports. They are totally different set ups. And even if we did.... we are limiting by team sports which us already an acknowledgment that being the best in a team sport is not as valuable as being the best in a single athlete sport. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jotun_Fan Posted November 1, 2020 Share Posted November 1, 2020 5 hours ago, SkippyX said: FYI - They are both fighting for 3rd place behind Ruth and Gretzky. Ruth was the best pitcher on 2 WS Champ Red Sox teams. He was the best hitter on 5 Yankees WS Champs. Ruth has the 17th lowest ERA of any pitcher Ruth is #1 in WAR Ruth is #1 in slugging Ruth is #1 in OPS He was 10th in batting average He had about a 400 home run lead on anyone from his era He is still #1 at home runs per at bat by 2 at bats when eliminating steroid cheats McGuire and Bonds. Ruth is like if Tom Brady and Ronnie Lott were the same 2-way player. Gretzky has more assists than any other NHL player has points. He is also #1 in goals by about 90 He is #1 in +/- for forwards He is 4th overall but defenseman in the NHL play about 30-45% more per game People on occasion make idiotic comparisons to Bossy or Orr if you only take his career up to the number of years those guys played it is no contest Gretzky has the top 2 goal scoring seasons He has 4 of the top 11 goal scoring seasons The guy he is tied at with at number 10 is Kurri who scored so much because Gretzky fed him. Gretzky has the top 7 assist seasons. He also has 11 of the top 13 assist seasons Gretzky has the top 4 points seasons He also has 9 of the top 11 points seasons He is #1 in all 3 categories in the playoffs and leads in points by 82 He has the top single playoff season point mark 4 of the top 5 No player besides Ruth has a greater talent and production gap in any of the 4 major sports. Gretzky has 48.7% more points than the guy at #2 (Jagr) and Jagr played 6 more years than Gretzky I'm guessing no one here really cares about sports outside North America, but Don Bradman in cricket was impressive to put it mildly. His career avg (I think it's more similar to ppg than baseball batting average) was 6.7 SD above the mean, versus Gretzky's 4.7 SD above the mean for PPG. If you tried to translate that to a baseball batting average it would be something like a .392 career batting average... And to basketball roughly 43ppg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan_W Posted November 1, 2020 Share Posted November 1, 2020 when you feel bad that your team has a BoB manager just know there was a team managed by someone that traded away Gretzky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkippyX Posted November 1, 2020 Share Posted November 1, 2020 34 minutes ago, Ryan_W said: when you feel bad that your team has a BoB manager just know there was a team managed by someone that traded away Gretzky The owner was a dirty scumbag in serious money / legal trouble. Gretzky was also in love with a Hollywood actress (Janet Jones) so he wanted to go to LA. It was pretty complicated. The insane thing was that Edmonton won again 2 year later. Most of the 1989-90 players said that Wayne taught them how to be better players and he was a reason for that 5th win even though he was gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancerman Posted November 1, 2020 Share Posted November 1, 2020 36 minutes ago, Ryan_W said: when you feel bad that your team has a BoB manager just know there was a team managed by someone that traded away Gretzky Ha! The Red Sox sent Ruth to their rivals so the owner could fund a play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apparition Posted November 1, 2020 Share Posted November 1, 2020 my hot take is that baseball isn't really a team sport, so Ruth's accomplishments can be viewed in the same light as those of the best golfers and tennis players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkippyX Posted November 1, 2020 Share Posted November 1, 2020 1 hour ago, Jotun_Fan said: I'm guessing no one here really cares about sports outside North America, but Don Bradman in cricket was impressive to put it mildly. His career avg (I think it's more similar to ppg than baseball batting average) was 6.7 SD above the mean, versus Gretzky's 4.7 SD above the mean for PPG. If you tried to translate that to a baseball batting average it would be something like a .392 career batting average... And to basketball roughly 43ppg. Its hard for us to have a concept of what the league is like but that guy sounds like a Cricket Babe Ruth. Another guy (not on a team sport) is Phelps with 23 golds. The next best are 4 people at 9. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkippyX Posted November 1, 2020 Share Posted November 1, 2020 5 minutes ago, lancerman said: Ha! The Red Sox sent Ruth to their rivals so the owner could fund a play. No No Nanette! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apparition Posted November 1, 2020 Share Posted November 1, 2020 6 minutes ago, SkippyX said: No No Nanette! Ugh. So that's a twofer. We could've had both Ruth as a career Red Sox AND no Hannah Gadsby. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocky_rams Posted November 1, 2020 Share Posted November 1, 2020 6 hours ago, SkippyX said: I have a weird obsession with sports stats and those guys are a gold mine. Ya don’t say? I would’ve never guessed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CP3MVP Posted November 1, 2020 Share Posted November 1, 2020 (edited) 9 hours ago, BayRaider said: MJ is the Team Sports GOAT without question imo. No one comes close at the moment, definitely not LeBron (smh at people even thinking that), but if Brady can win both a MVP and a Super Bowl on the Bucs, I think they would be close, like neck and neck, but still Jordan. If Brady can win two Super Bowls on the Bucs (99% not happening), I’d say they are tied, and dare I say, even a slight advantage to Brady. As of right now, I’d still put Brady #2, but it’s like not close at all. Why does brady have to win an mvp and a Super Bowl on another team when MJ didn’t have too. Brady is having a more successful season outside of NE than Jordan ever did Outside of Chicago’s. If Tom wins an MVP and title with a completely different organization this is a wrap. Especially a historical loser like tampa Phil Jackson’s record with Jordan craps on Bills without Brady btw Edited November 1, 2020 by CP3MVP 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter2_1 Posted November 1, 2020 Share Posted November 1, 2020 11 hours ago, SkippyX said: I have a weird obsession with sports stats and those guys are a gold mine. If you mean ALL sports, check out Don Bradman (cricket). In cricket if you average 45 or above, you're probably an elite batsman. The sport now is catered for batting (more protection, bigger bats, fielding restrictions etc), the best batsman averages about 55. Bradman played in an era where they didn't have helmets and could (and did) target the head. He averaged just shy of 100, and the reason he didn't average 100 was one series with England where they actually tried to kill him. It was known as the 'bodyline' series. But it is cricket, like I said Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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