Baltimore V Bills Who Wins?

[Kmart128]

 

[Broncofan]

45 minutes ago, Forge said:

Live look in at myself and @N4L

 

37 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

Greg Roman has never been good at scheming pass concepts, but the way he schemes the run is probably the best in the NFL. We need a new passing game coordinator because Steve Smith is absolutely right, our passing game is so elementary it's a joke.

 

7 minutes ago, diamondbull424 said:

No. We need a new offensive coordinator. If Roman wants to continue, HE needs to be downgraded to run game coordinator or fired.

You’ve got to think about this as a business. If I’m a talented/creative mind on a staff, why would I come to an offense where Roman has final say on implementation on concepts? My ideas and the player performance are what will make me a HC, a dude with more clout potentially holding me back isn’t an enticing proposition.

... and honestly, unless Roman is willing to really look to intern under said young creative mind in the implementation of the plays overall, the formations used and their could be some ego friction... then he needs to go entirely.

You don’t attract the best talent by giving them the least opportunity. An offensive coordinator role for an up and coming member of another staff would be our ONLY chance of acquiring such talent.

IMO you have to remove the OC tag from Roman completely.   His complete lack of adaptability both pre-game and in-game is a MASSIVE liability.

It's one thing to say he doesn't design pass plays well, or at all.   But in-game his struggles are in every facet of the game calling portfolio.   He literally can't adjust his run game to what the D is doing.    LAC used 7-DB's 2 years ago.  BUF sniffed out the QB sweep and RB dive plays as Roman's go-to plays.  And he didn't adapt.   If he had gone to more RPO's with QB inside runs and RB outside (with a pass option) - that had BUF completely stymied in the first 2 drives along with the RB dives and Lamar outside runs.  Yet once BUF sniffed out the QB sweep and RB dives - I don't think I saw a single RPO with Lamar running inside in the 2H.

Roman can install a run O.  He can design changes in the offseason.   Those are the 2 things he's great at.  He has literally no business being in the booth calling plays.  The dude cannot adapt.  It's painful to watch (although not if you're a Charger/Titan fan from years gone by, or a KC/BUF fan this year).

Edited January 17, 2021 by Broncofan

[Trentwannabe]

25 minutes ago, DannyB said:

Bills mafia being.....classy? Sorry my brain is still trying to work this one through.

 

 

 

This is what Bills Mafia actually is. We've been doing things like this for a while. 

 

[JDD]

1 minute ago, Trentwannabe said:

This is what Bills Mafia actually is. We've been doing things like this for a while. 

 

Right, didn’t they raise $75k for Andy Daltons charity when he won a game that got them in the playoffs?

[Trentwannabe]

1 minute ago, JDD said:

Right, didn’t they raise $75k for Andy Daltons charity when he won a game that got them in the playoffs?

Yup. And Over $500k for a children hospital in Buffalo in memory of Josh Allen's Grandmother. 

The big one that most people don't know about happened last year ironically after the Ravens game. There is a Baltimore radio personality who went out of his way to trash the city, the fans (including Pancho Billa who's dead and Del Reid who created Bills Mafia) and of course the team. Bills fans raised over $7k for Alzheimer Association because his mother was suffering from it. 

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

38 minutes ago, Trentwannabe said:

This is what Bills Mafia actually is. We've been doing things like this for a while. 

 

It's one of the reasons why I refuse to hate the Bills in any fashion.

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

53 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

IMO you have to remove the OC tag from Roman completely.   His complete lack of adaptability both pre-game and in-game is a MASSIVE liability.

It's one thing to say he doesn't design pass plays well, or at all.   But in-game his struggles are in every facet of the game calling portfolio.   He literally can't adjust his run game to what the D is doing.    LAC used 7-DB's 2 years ago.  BUF sniffed out the QB sweep and RB dive plays as Roman's go-to plays.  And he didn't adapt.   If he had gone to more RPO's with QB inside runs and RB outside (with a pass option) - that had BUF completely stymied in the first 2 drives along with the RB dives and Lamar outside runs.  Yet once BUF sniffed out the QB sweep and RB dives - I don't think I saw a single RPO with Lamar running inside in the 2H.

Roman can install a run O.  He can design changes in the offseason.   Those are the 2 things he's great at.  He has literally no business being in the booth calling plays.  The dude cannot adapt.  It's painful to watch (although not if you're a Charger/Titan fan from years gone by, or a KC/BUF fan this year).

I mean, the second we "demote" him, he's gone because he'll just get hired as an OC somewhere else. 

FWIW, Roman did a great job this year of completely revamping and redesigning the run game mid-season after we lost Nick Boyle. We went from a read-option team to a power/bash team overnight, and those changes are what propelled us through the second half of the season.

Even in the Titans game, he made some KEY halftime adjustments (notably, throwing quick to the flats) that ended up allowing us to exploit TEN's gameplan and sustain drives.

Roman has issues, absolutely, but I am of the belief that the root of those issues is not Roman, it's Dave Culley, our passing game coordinator / WR's coach. We desperately need someone who can scheme a passing game. Roman can call the plays, but the problem right now is that our concepts are just garbage.

[bigbadbuff]

32 minutes ago, Trentwannabe said:

Yup. And Over $500k for a children hospital in Buffalo in memory of Josh Allen's Grandmother. 

The big one that most people don't know about happened last year ironically after the Ravens game. There is a Baltimore radio personality who went out of his way to trash the city, the fans (including Pancho Billa who's dead and Del Reid who created Bills Mafia) and of course the team. Bills fans raised over $7k for Alzheimer Association because his mother was suffering from it. 

Jerry Coleman. Dude sucks

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

1 hour ago, diamondbull424 said:

No. We need a new offensive coordinator. If Roman wants to continue, HE needs to be downgraded to run game coordinator or fired.

Maybe this is the Harbaugh in me, but I'm just not sold on firing him. Absolutely I would entertain Run Game Coordinator / Assistant HC because they can bump his salary, but there's no argument we need better passing concepts. That's just objectively a fact. But, IMO, if we lose Roman, we lose basically our whole run game.

 

[DontTazeMeBro]

1 hour ago, diamondbull424 said:

No. We need a new offensive coordinator. If Roman wants to continue, HE needs to be downgraded to run game coordinator or fired.

You’ve got to think about this as a business. If I’m a talented/creative mind on a staff, why would I come to an offense where Roman has final say on implementation on concepts? My ideas and the player performance are what will make me a HC, a dude with more clout potentially holding me back isn’t an enticing proposition.

... and honestly, unless Roman is willing to really look to intern under said young creative mind in the implementation of the plays overall, the formations used and their could be some ego friction... then he needs to go entirely.

You don’t attract the best talent by giving them the least opportunity. An offensive coordinator role for an up and coming member of another staff would be our ONLY chance of acquiring such talent.

I really hate to say this. But do we trust Harbaugh to choose a new OC? Other than Kubiak he’s screwed that up over and over again. It should be remembered that he was a dead man walking before Jackson saved him.

[43M]

1 hour ago, SkippyX said:

Flacco went 10-5 in the playoffs.

You could really lean into it and make up some agenda based story that he was carried early  (he was) but Lamar has been great when he beat the Titans (yeah, right) and competent in the other 3 games (not even close)

And?    Flacco turned it on when he went to the playoffs.    I dont think anyone would argue that.

That doesnt mean he was overall better than Lamar.

Beyond that, the fact that Flacco is the only QB you bring up when talking about the Ravens past QB history shows you dont have much else to debate my point with.   It took them a LONG time to find someone even as good as Flacco.

 

Quote

Either way from 2010 to 2014 Flacco did this in the playoffs:

• 7 wins 3 losses
• 1 Lombardi with an 11 TD 0 pick playoffs (that's called the Joe Montana run)
• 24 TDs 4 picks in those 10 games
• 6 games of 100+ rating and 3 of 90+ rating in 10 playoff games.
  • Let me know when Lamar hits 80.

Overall he was 2-2 against the Brady Belichick Patriots. How did everyone else do?

How about level of competition?

EVERY TEAM THAT BEAT FLACCO IN THE PLAYOFFS WENT TO THE SUPERBOWL

• 2005 Steelers
• 2008 Steelers
• 2009 Colts
• 2011 Patriots
• 2014 Patriots

Jackson lost to 2 teams that lost the next week.

Nice cherry picking.   In this case, it pretty much complete kills your argument since it omits Flacco's first 2 years....and we only have Jackson's first 3 years thus far.

Again, Flacco was great in the postseason.    Not one person is arguing that.

The fact that youre trying to slam Jackson with this is pretty sad.   

Lamar Jackson JUST turned 24 and played his 3rd season.     

Care to look at Flacco's playoff performances his first 3 years?

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/F/FlacJo00.htm?sr&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool#passing_playoffs

He won a few more playoff games early on, but those first 2 years, he was absolutely carried by that defense and running game.

How about comparing them a little bit more fairly as opposed to merely cherry picking the stats that help your argument?

 

Quote

If your point is that Jackson was an improvement on a 33 year old Flacco who has been sacked 350+ times and suffered a bunch of injuries then wow, that really puts Lamar up there in elite company. 🤣

My point is that Jackson is an extremely young QB who had alot of flaws coming out of college and still has plenty of room to grow, and that only a complete dunce would think about replacing him considering what he has shown he is capable of.

Quote

Every other QB that the Ravens could even consider must be the equivalent of a washed up Joe Flacco is some truly staggering flawed logic. 

Not sure youre in position to be pointing out other peoples flawed logic....especially when that isnt even mine.

My logic is....

1) He JUST TURNED 24.
2) He was considered somewhat of a project QB coming out.
3) He made huge strides as a passer in his first 3 years, and won an MVP in his 2nd.
4) The Ravens QBs history prior to Lamar was extremely mediocre.    Flacco, while great in the playoffs, was never much more than an okay regular season QB.
5)  Great QBs are not easy to find.   Even if you dont consider Jackson great, he is at least good with remaining upside, and just needs to get better in big games...particularly the playoffs.    (look at Peyton Manning's first 3 playoff appearances....guess the Colts shouldve replaced him, huh?)

So, CONSIDERING ALL OF THAT....it all boils down to this:  It would be EXTREMELY STUPID to move on from a QB who has shown so much in his first 3 years....just because he has had some struggles in the postseason.

Edited January 17, 2021 by 43M

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

When a Steelers fan is defending a Ravens player, you might just wanna stfu because chances are you're probably wrong @SkippyX

[SkippyX]

You stated that before Lamar was horrible at the QB position.

I proved that you were misinformed.

Have a nice day.

 

PS: I'm not picking a side on keeping or trading Lamar (I'd lean to keep if I did)

I am pointing out that your logic is not logic.

[SkippyX]

Another great idea would be to understand the concept of Cherry Picking.

I covered the 2010-Lamar period when you cried about the sorry state of QB before Lamar.

I also pointed out that Flacco was bad in the playoffs in his early years.

This is a Red Herring in your lame argument since you did not cry about the state of the Ravens QBs in 2008-2010. You cried about BEFORE Lamar.

Do you want to talk about Trent Dilfer and Elvis Grbac too?

If it hurts your feelings that we can't travel 10 years into the future then you will just have to be sad.

 

Your opinions about logic don't change the rules of logic.

Edited January 17, 2021 by SkippyX

[43M]

1 minute ago, SkippyX said:

You stated that before Lamar was horrible at the QB position.

You embarrassed yourself with that comment more than I ever possibly could.

1 minute ago, SkippyX said:

I proved that you were misinformed.

Have a nice day.

You certainly proved that SOMEONE is misinformed.   So...

1 minute ago, SkippyX said:

I am pointing out that your logic is not logic.

And yet you didn't.