2021 Jets Season: Misc. Talk

[Bobby816]

20 minutes ago, doumeyer said:

The last several years we have seen rookie QB's have some success in their first year, Mayfield, Allen, Jackson, Herbert, the two we drafted Darnold & Wilson have shown next to nothing with us, what makes this thing so crazy is Mark Sanchez, we all consider him a bust, BUT his four years with the jets he had winning seasons three out of the four years he was a Jet. He took us to the playoffs twice and to the conference finals once. How much of our problems is the coaching, thru out our 58 year history we had only two outstanding coaches, Bill Parcells & Webb Ewbank, all the rest were subpar i will say Mangini was not bad. It is too early to judge Douglas & Saheh, but it is getting close.  

I almost forgot Rex Ryan, i am one of the few guys who liked Ryan, I always felt his heart and soul were in the Jets. And his teams were entertaining. 

With Darnold… we ruined him with never giving him an OL or weapons. So that was on the FO and staff.

With Wilson… they’ve refused to simplify the game. IMO they’ve been trying to run an offense that works with an experienced QB. My guess is in TC and practices he looked like he can handle it. But on Sunday’s he hasn’t. It looks too complicated for him. Which isn’t his fault. He’s a rookie coming from a school that wasn’t playing top end talent. That’s on the staff to simplify things for him. But he’s still just making a lot of mistakes that people get rid of in college. A lot is starring down WRs. Looking for the big plays all the time. Throwing off his back foot when he doesn’t have to. Etc.

[KingOfNewYork]

29 minutes ago, doumeyer said:

The last several years we have seen rookie QB's have some success in their first year, Mayfield, Allen, Jackson, Herbert, the two we drafted Darnold & Wilson have shown next to nothing with us, what makes this thing so crazy is Mark Sanchez, we all consider him a bust, BUT his four years with the jets he had winning seasons three out of the four years he was a Jet. He took us to the playoffs twice and to the conference finals once. How much of our problems is the coaching, thru out our 58 year history we had only two outstanding coaches, Bill Parcells & Webb Ewbank, all the rest were subpar i will say Mangini was not bad. It is too early to judge Douglas & Saheh, but it is getting close.  

I almost forgot Rex Ryan, i am one of the few guys who liked Ryan, I always felt his heart and soul were in the Jets. And his teams were entertaining. 

Allen and Jackson did not look good as rookies, actually Darnold looked better than both. They all simply progressed and Darnold didn’t.

Either way Wilson is 5 games into his career. And every rookie has looked mediocre at best this year. Mac Jones has been the best but he’s mostly thrown short passes. 

Think about it this way. Jones is completing 71% of his passes and Wilson is completing 59% of his. However both are averaging 6.5 yards per attempt. Jones also only has one more TD pass. Lawrence same two splits as Wilson. Fields 51% and 6.4 YPA. Lance 52% and 7.4 YPA.

The only one who looks accurate statistically in Jones but even then he’s not outproducing his peers each drop back. 

So these kids have 2 choices, be safe or be great but to get there they’re gonna take their lumps. 

 

[rickyt31]

40 minutes ago, doumeyer said:

The last several years we have seen rookie QB's have some success in their first year, Mayfield, Allen, Jackson, Herbert, the two we drafted Darnold & Wilson have shown next to nothing with us, what makes this thing so crazy is Mark Sanchez, we all consider him a bust, BUT his four years with the jets he had winning seasons three out of the four years he was a Jet. He took us to the playoffs twice and to the conference finals once. How much of our problems is the coaching, thru out our 58 year history we had only two outstanding coaches, Bill Parcells & Webb Ewbank, all the rest were subpar i will say Mangini was not bad. It is too early to judge Douglas & Saheh, but it is getting close.  

I almost forgot Rex Ryan, i am one of the few guys who liked Ryan, I always felt his heart and soul were in the Jets. And his teams were entertaining. 

I liked Rex as well because he did bring an identity to this team, but he couldn't find a legit OC and was terrible with scouting talent. On top of that, Tanny kept trading away picks. He tried to take the approach the Rams are doing now, but did it for the wrong players. 

If JD was over Rex, things probably would have went differently. Not that JD is perfect, but he wouldn't have given in to trading picks and giving out the contracts we saw. 

[NJerseypaint]

7 minutes ago, KingOfNewYork said:

Allen and Jackson did not look good as rookies, actually Darnold looked better than both. They all simply progressed and Darnold didn’t.

Either way Wilson is 5 games into his career. And every rookie has looked mediocre at best this year. Mac Jones has been the best but he’s mostly thrown short passes. 

Think about it this way. Jones is completing 71% of his passes and Wilson is completing 59% of his. However both are averaging 6.5 yards per attempt. Jones also only has one more TD pass. Lawrence same two splits as Wilson. Fields 51% and 6.4 YPA. Lance 52% and 7.4 YPA.

The only one who looks accurate statistically in Jones but even then he’s not outproducing his peers each drop back. 

So these kids have 2 choices, be safe or be great but to get there they’re gonna take their lumps. 

 

The completion percentage makes more sense when you look at stats around average depth of target - Zach Wilson bests Jones in air yards by a good margin.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2021/passing_advanced.htm

Edited October 11, 2021 by NJerseypaint

[KingOfNewYork]

2 minutes ago, NJerseypaint said:

The completion percentage makes more sense when you look at stats around average depth of target - Zach Wilson bests Jones in air yards by a good margin.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2021/passing_advanced.htm

Good find. Looking at certain things Wilson definitely can improve with his eye discipline. He keeps his head up but I think his eyes tell the defense too much. A tight end would do him a lot of justice. 

[doumeyer]

1 hour ago, KingOfNewYork said:

Allen and Jackson did not look good as rookies, actually Darnold looked better than both. They all simply progressed and Darnold didn’t.

Either way Wilson is 5 games into his career. And every rookie has looked mediocre at best this year. Mac Jones has been the best but he’s mostly thrown short passes. 

Think about it this way. Jones is completing 71% of his passes and Wilson is completing 59% of his. However both are averaging 6.5 yards per attempt. Jones also only has one more TD pass. Lawrence same two splits as Wilson. Fields 51% and 6.4 YPA. Lance 52% and 7.4 YPA.

The only one who looks accurate statistically in Jones but even then he’s not outproducing his peers each drop back. 

So these kids have 2 choices, be safe or be great but to get there they’re gonna take their lumps. 

 

Your point is well taken, that is why I brought all the coaches we had into the conversation, who was at fault the coaches or the players? The Jets brought Gase in because he was supposed to be so great with Young QB's, and a great offensive mind, how did that work out for us. If this was still the fifties or the sixties most of these young QB would on the bench for 2 or 3 years. Back then there never was any talk about firing the MGR in baseball or coaches in football we just didn't do it. The coaches back then were mostly X players and no way were they as sophisticated as todays coaches. The Steelers drafted John Unitas, and cut him at the end of training camp, that would never happen today. Even when i was in high school our coach was the gym teach and his asst coach was the art teacher who nothing know about football. Down here in Florida our high school team has seven coaches all were hired for different towns.

 

Edited October 11, 2021 by doumeyer

[Abe56]

AVT the highest grade guard in the NFL this week, coming around nicely.  Also feasted last week.

[drew39k]

10 minutes ago, Abe56 said:

AVT the highest grade guard in the NFL this week, coming around nicely.  Also feasted last week.

Love that Mims is top two and Moore is bottom of the pile, but be sure the new regime drafted Moore they refuse to let Mims get the snaps. And why is Cole getting so many reps. 

[KingOfNewYork]

1 hour ago, doumeyer said:

Your point is well taken, that is why I brought all the coaches we had into the conversation, who was at fault the coaches or the players? The Jets brought Gase in because he was supposed to be so great with Young QB's, and a great offensive mind, how did that work out for us. If this was still the fifties or the sixties most of these young QB would on the bench for 2 or 3 years. Back then there never was any talk about firing the MGR in baseball or coaches in football we just didn't do it. The coaches back then were mostly X players and no way were they as sophisticated as todays coaches. The Steelers drafted John Unitas, and cut him at the end of training camp, that would never happen today. Even when i was in high school our coach was the gym teach and his asst coach was the art teacher who nothing know about football. Down here in Florida our high school team has seven coaches all were hired for different towns.

 

Darnold’s numbers climbed under Gase and then dropped the very next year. Not to mention he still looks like the same player as of late. 

[KingOfNewYork]

17 minutes ago, drew39k said:

Love that Mims is top two and Moore is bottom of the pile, but be sure the new regime drafted Moore they refuse to let Mims get the snaps. And why is Cole getting so many reps. 

Fant said he was better at Left Tackle and I urged the team last year to play him there and let Becton be a mauling Right Tackle

[ekill08x]

32 minutes ago, drew39k said:

Love that Mims is top two and Moore is bottom of the pile, but be sure the new regime drafted Moore they refuse to let Mims get the snaps. And why is Cole getting so many reps. 

Mims had 8 snaps so its kind of a whatever grade but he had two nice catches. Minus the PI call Moore has really been useless. I remember arguing with fans who complained about Devin Smith always being open and Fitz couldnt get him the ball...they were wrong lol. Moore however does have real talent, but its been a combo of him taking forever to win the route and Zach not having time to find him or finding him in general. Need to start manufacturing touches for him. 

[Dr.O]

47 minutes ago, ekill08x said:

Mims had 8 snaps so its kind of a whatever grade but he had two nice catches. Minus the PI call Moore has really been useless. I remember arguing with fans who complained about Devin Smith always being open and Fitz couldnt get him the ball...they were wrong lol. Moore however does have real talent, but its been a combo of him taking forever to win the route and Zach not having time to find him or finding him in general. Need to start manufacturing touches for him. 

Moore also needs to be playing in the slot a ton more. Let him take on Berrios’ role in the offense.

[rickyt31]

2 hours ago, Abe56 said:

AVT the highest grade guard in the NFL this week, coming around nicely.  Also feasted last week.

Mims situation has me doubting these coaches. I don't know how much of a difference it would have been, but I know it would have been different if Wilson had the chance to build chemistry with Davis, Crowder, and Mims during camp. 

Moore should be rotating with Crowder. Especially since Crowder isn't coming back next season.  I know Crowder was hurt, but this should have been the plan. 

Edited October 11, 2021 by rickyt31

[rickyt31]

I was just about to say how I don't think Moore is being used correctly and this tweet came up. This staff is holding this offense back. The only thing they really proved me wrong on was starting Fant over Moses. Fant is doing really good at LT right now. With how this Wilson, Mims, More situation, the offensive playcalling, and etc. I'm struggling to say who we should add and who we shouldn't. 

Moore was being compared to HOF's and had current pro-bowl level talent players hyping him up. He was killing it in camp and had us debating if he could play outside. Suddenly, he looks bad. I can't recall seeing plays that looked like it was designed for Moore. Even if the problem is Lafluer, it's Saleh's job to check him. 

 

[TheGDJets]

1 hour ago, rickyt31 said:

I was just about to say how I don't think Moore is being used correctly and this tweet came up. This staff is holding this offense back. The only thing they really proved me wrong on was starting Fant over Moses. Fant is doing really good at LT right now. With how this Wilson, Mims, More situation, the offensive playcalling, and etc. I'm struggling to say who we should add and who we shouldn't. 

Moore was being compared to HOF's and had current pro-bowl level talent players hyping him up. He was killing it in camp and had us debating if he could play outside. Suddenly, he looks bad. I can't recall seeing plays that looked like it was designed for Moore. Even if the problem is Lafluer, it's Saleh's job to check him. 

 

"The offense didn't have that many plays." How does this coaching staff have jobs after admitting that? Incredible