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Nacho Simulation Football League (Season 22 - Taco Bowl XXII POSTED!)

TheKillerNacho
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pwny

pwny

Posted
Posted
14 minutes ago, Tk3 said:

I think many of us are seeing a level of entitlement that is offputting. Don't claim victim here.

I think the league is fun. Many of us think the league is fun. If you think the league is fun, then join. If you don't think the league is fun, then don't join.

But if you don't think the league is fun and are not going to join, then just leave. Don't stir everything up in the process

If you're seeing entitlement, that's certainly not the tone intended. 

I think many aspects of the league are fun. I like a lot of the owners, and think a good number of you are reasonable and grounded when talking trades and other things. You and I have butted heads on the Red vs Blue stuff and some other things, but I think you're well grounded and from what I've seen, you're a fine trade partner.

But there's also things I don't like. I don't like the way you can put in effort for a week working on a trade just to be ghosted and then told the trade is over, or how you can work on a trade and certain owners will agree to something in the DM, you post the details for verification, and then they come back an hour later and ask for more. And then when I choose to instead make trades with the people I know aren't going to screw around and waste my time, I get accused of collusion.

Over the last year, the pandemic washed away the memories of some of the stuff. Nacho came to me and asked if I could come back. I told him no, that I didn't want to run a team by myself. I thought about it some more and came to the conclusion that if I got Trevor and a co-owner to take some of the workload off, it might be fun to try to rebuild a team from complete nothing to a champion around Trevor; something I expect the Jaguars wont be able to do. Maybe that'll be fun. Hey, I could work some trades and maybe if I don't have to bend over backwards for Trevor, I can throw a ton of assets + Burrow for Julio and MT (never actually pursued this) and get the old band back together. That seemed like it could be neat. And given that Nacho literally cannot find suitable owners, it'd at least keep the league open another offseason, the same reason that I stuck around in S19 and S20 despite making it clear I was ready to move on.

So I gave it a try. Told Nacho that I'd commit if I could do that. And then this trade played out exactly like it did and all the stuff that washed away came back. Yeah, I could go make a trade with counselor; I'd be bidding against myself now that he knows exactly what I'm willing to offer, but I could get it done. But then I get to rebuild a team around a single player with no assets, and half the league that's going to waste my time if I try to trade with them, another quarter of the league I'm going to get accused of collusion if I trade with, and only about 5-6 owners who aren't going to give me a head ache either in negotiations or in biow back for accusations if I work something out.

So yeah, it's my fault for forgetting all that other stuff and trying to find a reason to be interested in coming back to help out Nacho. But it's not from a place of entitlement. 

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Tk3

Tk3

Posted
Posted
Just now, pwny said:

If you're seeing entitlement, that's certainly not the tone intended. 

I think many aspects of the league are fun. I like a lot of the owners, and think a good number of you are reasonable and grounded when talking trades and other things. You and I have butted heads on the Red vs Blue stuff and some other things, but I think you're well grounded and from what I've seen, you're a fine trade partner.

But there's also things I don't like. I don't like the way you can put in effort for a week working on a trade just to be ghosted and then told the trade is over, or how you can work on a trade and certain owners will agree to something in the DM, you post the details for verification, and then they come back an hour later and ask for more. And then when I choose to instead make trades with the people I know aren't going to screw around and waste my time, I get accused of collusion.

Over the last year, the pandemic washed away the memories of some of the stuff. Nacho came to me and asked if I could come back. I told him no, that I didn't want to run a team by myself. I thought about it some more and came to the conclusion that if I got Trevor and a co-owner to take some of the workload off, it might be fun to try to rebuild a team from complete nothing to a champion around Trevor; something I expect the Jaguars wont be able to do. Maybe that'll be fun. Hey, I could work some trades and maybe if I don't have to bend over backwards for Trevor, I can throw a ton of assets + Burrow for Julio and MT (never actually pursued this) and get the old band back together. That seemed like it could be neat. And given that Nacho literally cannot find suitable owners, it'd at least keep the league open another offseason, the same reason that I stuck around in S19 and S20 despite making it clear I was ready to move on.

So I gave it a try. Told Nacho that I'd commit if I could do that. And then this trade played out exactly like it did and all the stuff that washed away came back. Yeah, I could go make a trade with counselor; I'd be bidding against myself now that he knows exactly what I'm willing to offer, but I could get it done. But then I get to rebuild a team around a single player with no assets, and half the league that's going to waste my time if I try to trade with them, another quarter of the league I'm going to get accused of collusion if I trade with, and only about 5-6 owners who aren't going to give me a head ache either in negotiations or in biow back for accusations if I work something out.

So yeah, it's my fault for forgetting all that other stuff and trying to find a reason to be interested in coming back to help out Nacho. But it's not from a place of entitlement. 

I should apologize also, and I appreciate the thoughtfulness of this post.

From the outside, its felt like a lot of us have been committed, and that you've just been dipping your toes and acting like "if things go my way, I'll join, if not, I'm out". Maybe that's unfair and I read it wrong - but even if that is the case, that's actually not that big of a deal, honestly.

It's more that it then snowballed into something even bigger and more contentious and at some point you either need to want to do this or not want to (either decision is fine), but blowing things up on the way out isn't helping anything

I guess ultimately do what you've got to do for your own enjoyment as far as joining or not joining. But nothing that happened in the last 10 pages is in any way productive (my own posts included)

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Glen

Glen

Posted
Posted
43 minutes ago, Tk3 said:

@TheKillerNacho

I'd obviously like to untag Wirfs and tag Diggs

WR1: Diggs
WR2: Allen

thx!

To everyone else.. I'm either looking for 1 tag, or trading 2 tags

Give me Wirfs 

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pwny

pwny

Posted
Posted
46 minutes ago, Tk3 said:

I should apologize also, and I appreciate the thoughtfulness of this post.

From the outside, its felt like a lot of us have been committed, and that you've just been dipping your toes and acting like "if things go my way, I'll join, if not, I'm out". Maybe that's unfair and I read it wrong - but even if that is the case, that's actually not that big of a deal, honestly.

It's more that it then snowballed into something even bigger and more contentious and at some point you either need to want to do this or not want to (either decision is fine), but blowing things up on the way out isn't helping anything

I guess ultimately do what you've got to do for your own enjoyment as far as joining or not joining. But nothing that happened in the last 10 pages is in any way productive (my own posts included)

I can certainly see how the whole situation seemed that way without all the details. But yeah, it wasn't "my way or the highway," but more so "I'll help nacho if I can get some things together to get me interested," and then those things going the other way.

 

I also didn't intend for the snowball towards contentiousness to happen, though I admittedly played the largest role in it going that way. And that's certainly my fault. But ultimately, that was one of the things that killed my interest in running my team the first time. It wasn't all of it, but it played a big role, and was the reason I had the most consistent core of players for as long as I did, because dealing with other people to make trades became a chore. I've talked to a number of past and present owners that feel the same way. I don't think you and I have ever really engaged in trade negotiations at any real level, but the reason I mentioned that you seem like a good trade partner is because other people have noted that you're one of the few that aren't a complete pain to deal with. And I think that's quite likely contributing to the turnover at some level; some guys are moving on with their lives and all of that, and some the game just really isn't for them. But I do think that people just being exhausted by the way some of this plays out is contributing to a number of players losing interest and eventually leaving the league; they don't want to be involved with the drama and airing it out, so they retreat backward and put less and less effort into the game until they're detached and find themselves ready to move on.

I want the league to continue, even if I'm not playing. When Nacho was considering ending the league, glem and I talked to him pretty extensively about what it would take for us to take over and co-commish the league to keep it afloat, and I stayed in the league solely because he couldn't find anyone else to take a spot. We wanted to make sure that even if Nacho wasn't able to keep the league around, that it could stay if people wanted to stick around. But I think if there isn't some addressing of the things that are contributing to people not renewing, the league is dancing dangerously on the edge of not being able to continue because the turnover is larger than the number of people that Nacho can find; every season it gets harder and harder to find owners for the 2-3 new openings. I'd prefer that not happen, so I spoke up about the reason I'm not returning. And it snowballed from there because I do care about the league, I'm just frustrated with how things are.

 

But your previous messages are probably right. I've aired my grievances, it's clear it's falling on deaf ears. It's best that I just move on.

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El Ramster

El Ramster

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, pwny said:

To be clear, trade negotiations went like this. I deleted my messages, so I’m paraphrasing, but this is the exact number of messages that happened

me: hey, I’m considering coming back, but only if I can get Trevor. What do you want?

RMIB: this is my current top offer [insert offer from Ravens]

me: Ravens and I worked out a three way trade where you get the same exact return [insert offer], what do you think?

RMIB: [leaves the message on read for several hours, checking back a few times]

me: hey, I need to know what we’re doing so that I can stop stringing nacho along. Are we close?

RMIB: I’m trading the pick to counselor. If you’re really that desperate to make a trade, you can make it with him.

 

It’s the lack of attempt to negotiate in good faith for me. 

Maybe people don’t like you? Don’t take it personal. 

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