Grade the Packers Draft

[PossibleCabbage]

Tebow was carried by those Gator teams.  His job was PR.

You will never convince me otherwise.  Dude wasn't even the best QB on the roster.  He was just squeaky clean, which the actual talented people on the team were not.

[Leader]

6 minutes ago, wgbeethree said:

I'm just saying that I find it odd that Gute went against the grain on a lot of things this board and the Packers front office has held fast to previously and it surprises me everyone else seemingly is super happy with it. That's all. 

I wanted the FO to so something different this draft and had been saying it for weeks before the draft - as it pertained to the WR position.

I had very narrow and focused wants here. I wanted them to replenish the WR room - and - keep it that way in subsequent drafts. Not let it die on the vine and be dominated by one superior talent / contract.

Hence I targeted the 28th pick - let 22 go for a different position - and - if a trade back was in order - just dont go so far that you miss the player (which as you know I was focused on Pickens).

For weeks - I had everybody and their brother telling me how stupid I was - how GB doesnt do that - that it will never happen.......yadayadayada.

Turns out - we were both right.

They bypassed my preferred player @ 28th pick - but came back up and nabbed a WR a few steps back @ 34 - in the second round - their "safe zone" when it comes to WRs apparently.

Good enough for me. They went on to select more WR's to give the room some bodies.

Works. For. Me.

Exactly what I personally wanted.

[Gopackgonerd]

19 minutes ago, Leader said:

My biggest concern with Watson isnt his speed...it's his hands. We might see more passes than we'd like "clank" off his hands. Hope not...but I'm allowing for it....till he gets coached up / worked up and his hands are turned into muscle bound clamps and he's receiving the ball ala Davante and Randall.  

I think it is a valid concern. I havent watched his drops, but I was watching Brett Kollmans WR tiers and he mentioned "concentration drops" so is it  was he not trusting his hands more so than his hands being bricks? Obviously drops are drops but he can easily fix that the more he plays. Watching his tape he never really seemed like he had trouble plucking it out of the air to me though. 

[Leader]

1 minute ago, Gopackgonerd said:

I think it is a valid concern. I havent watched his drops, but I was watching Brett Kollmans WR tiers and he mentioned "concentration drops" so is it  was he not trusting his hands more so than his hands being bricks? Obviously drops are drops but he can easily fix that the more he plays. Watching his tape he never really seemed like he had trouble plucking it out of the air to me though. 

I dont know - but it's been mentioned in connection with him and some folks here who's opinion I value pointed out the issue. So he's got work to do - but I like the talent. Now - lets use it. Get him the ball and let him run.

[Norm]

8 minutes ago, PossibleCabbage said:

Tebow was carried by those Gator teams.  His job was PR.

You will never convince me otherwise.  Dude wasn't even the best QB on the roster.  He was just squeaky clean, which the actual talented people on the team were not.

I'm hoping this is referencing Cam... And not Chris Leak. Or lolol Brantley. Also Cam was third string behind that bum.

I get people are annoyed by Tim and he sucked really bad in the pros and he was absolutely surrounded by talent, but so have a ton of other dudes, especially lately and they don't get ten percent of the **** over it 

Sadly, TT should have never went pro. It ruined his college legacy and everyone thinks he sucked and was I guess the same as a ****ty *** QB in the MVFC.

There's polls right after he declared for the draft that had him top three all time, which is probably too much, and then after he was bad in the NFL they did one and he didn't hit the top 25. 

Edited May 2, 2022 by Norm

[R T]

2 minutes ago, Norm said:

I'm hoping this is referencing Cam... And not Chris Leak. Or lolol Brantley. Also Cam was third string behind that bum.

I get people are annoyed by Tim and he sucked really bad in the pros and he was absolutely surrounded by talent, but so have a ton of other dudes, especially lately and they don't get ten percent of the **** over it 

Sadly, TT should have never went pro. It ruined his college legacy and everyone tonks he sucked and was I guess the same as a ****ty *** QB in the MVFC

It is always odd to me that people can't separate college and pro careers and give a person the respect they deserve. Maybe it's just human nature, a build people up to tear them down thing. 

[Leader]

Tebow was a good college player. You've gotta give him that. A pure pocket passer he wasnt. He didnt have a great arm and he wasnt a "Lamaar-like" speed demon either - characteristics which came to cancel out his NFL career. He couldnt throw the ball well enough - nor could he run to success at the next level.

But - in college he was tough as nails and the Gators won a bunch of games with him at the helm.

 

Edited May 2, 2022 by Leader

[Norm]

6 minutes ago, R T said:

It is always odd to me that people can't separate college and pro careers and give a person the respect they deserve. Maybe it's just human nature, a build people up to tear them down thing. 

I think it's some of that, Tebow obviously rubbed a lot of people the wrong way for a multitude of different reasons and I get that. I still laugh when people say stuff like "he had a pop gun arm." No no no. He had the weirdest motion ever and they tried to screw with it and his pretty bad accu got even worse but there was arm strength. But at least then you know the guy doesn't have a clue what they're talking about.

[wgbeethree]

30 minutes ago, Norm said:

What are we talking about here exactly?

1) ILB isn't a premium position and you don't draft them high.

2) You don't draft older players high.

3) You don't fall in love with a player and "overpay" for him in the draft.

I feel like all three of these statements would have been resoundingly supported by the board and thought of as fundamental beliefs of the FO a week ago.

[ThatJerkDave]

2 hours ago, ThatJerkDave said:

As a rookie, MVS had 73 targets, 38 receptions and 581 yards.  That is probably what we are looking for out of Watson in his rookie season.  Cobb and Lazard are going to see a big uptick in their targets this season.  

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/V/ValdMa00.htm

 

 

2 hours ago, ThatJerkDave said:

I don't know.  I am just saying that is probably how many targets we can expect Watson to get as a rookie.  I am not even comparing them as players.  Just the opportunity that I think he will have as rookies.  MVS was the second WR for a good portion of that season because Cobb, Ty Montgomery, and EQ were hurt for portions of the season (go figure).  Watson will probably be "WR 4" to start the season.  But do you believe that either Cobb or Watkins won't miss time during the season? There will be games where Watson is a primary target.  There will probably be some other games where all he does is run deep a couple of times to draw a safety.

Let me try to unpack this a little better.  Because I kind of feel like some of you guys are picking up something that I am not actually putting down, and it may be my fault.  I am not comparing Watson to MVS in any manner other than the fact that they are both WRs that play for the Packers.  We can even compare them to how Davante Adams was brought in as well, again, not comparing anything about the actual players but their opportunities.  

MVS and Davante actually had pretty similar rookie seasons, from a targets and production standpoint.  As stated before, MVS had: 73 targets, 38 receptions and 581 yards.  Davante had 66 targets, 38 receptions and 446 yards.  They had 2 and 3 touchdowns, respectively.  In MVS's rookie season, he had to compete with 169 targets to Davante, 89 to Jimmy Graham, and 76 to the RBs.  Randall Cobb was the number 2 WR until he got hurt and it increased MVS's targets. In Davante's rookie season, Jordy Nelson had 151 targets, Randall Cobb had 127 targets, and the RBs had 84 targets.  Davante was the number 3 WR all season.  

So, what is Watson going to be competing with this season? We know that Rodgers is on the same page as Cobb and Lazard.  Their targets will increase, as he is no longer force feeding Davante.  Sammy Watkins is a savvy vet, and will probably get on the same page as Rodgers pretty quickly.  It is likely that both Cobb and Watkins miss some games which will move Watson up the pecking order for at least part of the season.  Split whatever remaining WR opportunities are left among Amari Rodgers, the other rookies, and hold overs.  I don't think it is at all out of line to think that Watson will get targets in range of MVS or Davante's rookie seasons.  If I have to be hammered down to a range, it is probably somewhere between 60 and 75 targets, in line with two pretty good former Packer WRs as rookies.

[incognito_man]

3 minutes ago, wgbeethree said:

1) ILB isn't a premium position and you don't draft them high.

2) You don't draft older players high.

3) You don't fall in love with a player and "overpay" for him in the draft.

I feel like all three of these statements would have been resoundingly supported by the board and thought of as fundamental beliefs of the FO a week ago.

My personal responses:

1) I definitely don't consider 22 to be too high for an elite ILB prospect. I'm not saying I have any clue if Walker is that, but I definitely feel the slot is totally fine if you think he is.

2) Generally agree. The two positions I think age is less critical is TE and IDL, however. Both are often slow transitions anyway, so getting a more polished (older) guy at those positions is more ok to me.

3) I don't view it as an overpay. We were trying to use those two picks to move up for the guy and 34 was the first spot it was possible to do so. That tells me it was market value. We certainly offered that same deal to every other team between 29 and 33. And nobody took it.

[Uffdaswede]

2 hours ago, {Family Ghost} said:

I graded the draft a B+ .. thought it was really good overall.  I think it could have been an A if they would have done something like this.

22 Wyatt

28 Watson

53 Pierce/McBride/Goedeke/Troy Anderson

59 Drake Jackson/Chad Muma/Bryan Cook/Nik Bonnito

Actually, this makes a sh!+ ton of sense.

You get to look pretty smart if Quay Walker is average. But if he regularly impacts games with his size and speed and kills drives for us I think Gute still wins.

But again, if he’s just pretty good then you have a strong argument that your way was smarter. 

[coachbuns]

7 hours ago, ChaRisMa said:

Picks I loved: I had Wyatt at 22 for us. I had Enagbare at 59. I had Tom at 132. Rasheed Walker at 249 was awesome value.
 

Pick I hated: Christian Watson at 34 made me turn the draft off. I know you all have the green and gold blinders on. But prepare for disappointment. Watson is good for routes 5-7 like MVS and not much else. Anytime he has to cut a 90, quality DBs will immediately be on his hip. He doesn’t use his size. Still apparently hasn’t been taught to stop for the curl route. Wastes too many steps. He’s way more raw that people realize. Gigantic doubts for me whether he can play in the NFL. There were 4-5 guys with the same ability to be tall and fast available. Horrible trade and selection. Not a future WR1. A long term WR3 in MLF’s scheme.

From what I've heard/read .. Watson set the senior bowl on fire with his play.  Not sure he can suck as bad as you say but light it up there.  I'm kind of leaning toward Gute and the senior bowl.  Maybe he has a twin that you saw and the Packers the other?  

[coachbuns]

42 minutes ago, wgbeethree said:

1) ILB isn't a premium position and you don't draft them high.

2) You don't draft older players high.

3) You don't fall in love with a player and "overpay" for him in the draft.

I feel like all three of these statements would have been resoundingly supported by the board and thought of as fundamental beliefs of the FO a week ago.

Board of what?  Fundamentals of a week ago and they change in a week?  Understand that's how you think ... obviously not what the FO thought about this draft class.

[Norm]

46 minutes ago, wgbeethree said:

1) ILB isn't a premium position and you don't draft them high.

2) You don't draft older players high.

3) You don't fall in love with a player and "overpay" for him in the draft.

I feel like all three of these statements would have been resoundingly supported by the board and thought of as fundamental beliefs of the FO a week ago.

Gotcha, I knew #2 was one. I don't know if 3 is what truly happened with any of, and I totally kinda forgot we took an "ILB" at 22 lol but yeah we've been hearing the premiums only and age cutoff kinda stuff for that early for a long time. Stuff like this gets broke by teams all the time and then the fans "recalibrate" the cut offs and recreate the trend existing with slightly different parameters. Always makes me laugh. Wasn't this site but  I still remember getting murdered weekly for gushing about Cobb because there was no way TT would draft someone with that size so early, granted I thought we were going to take him at 32 so I suck too.