Josh McDaniels and Dave Ziegler are a problem - What should Mark do?

[Nightmare]

6 minutes ago, NickButera said:

As bas as it is for us, coaches will start to be fearful of coming here if we get into this pattern of firing them too soon. If Davis waits until the end of the year (this year's a wash anyway) then at least we save face and say without a shadow of the doubt we gave our HC a long rope to get his job done. I can't argue with that approach.  

My gut wants McDaniels gone if we lose the next 2 games though. 

Have we fired anyone too soon, though?

Del Rio got 3 full years, the latter of which we took a big step back from the previous one and I think most were in agreement that he had reached a ceiling.

Gruden was into his 4th year before his departure, which wasn’t so much a firing as a mutual operation designed to save face for all involved.

Bisaccia was the interim guy, who admittedly did well but will clearly never get a HC gig at this level again.

If McDaniels gets canned during or after his second season, it will be 1) an exception from the norm, and 2) absolutely deserved.

Edited September 25, 2023 by Nightmare

[Humble_Beast]

I was invited to a BBQ and party for the game last night. I had a feeling it wasn’t worth drinking and being tired on Monday. I watched the game with no drinks and feel great today. I made the right choice! This team sucks 

[SimonGruber]

Assuming the current regime gets kicked to the curb. Can we find a coach that will be adaptable to the talent please. As opposed to taking a hardline when it comes to guys fitting his system 

[RaidersAreOne]

8 minutes ago, Nightmare said:

Have we fired anyone too soon, though?

Del Rio got 3 full years, the latter of which we took a big step back from the previous one and I think most were in agreement that he had reached a ceiling.

Gruden was into his 4th year before his departure, which wasn’t so much a firing as a mutual operation designed to save face for all involved.

Bisaccia was the interim guy, who admittedly did well but will clearly never get a HC gig at this level again.

If McDaniels gets canned during or after his second season, it will be 1) an exception from the norm, and 2) absolutely deserved.

That's a fair way of looking at it. 

I think Mark only fires McDaniels if we truly suck. But as far as draft outlooks are, don't we want to truly suck to land a higher pick? So maybe keeping McD around for the full season wouldn't be the end of the world haha.

However we risk further alienating our star players/young guys and stunting development. That's no good.

[Jeremy408]

You can't fire the owner. So there's nothing that can be done. He just basically has to accidentally get the right guy

Edited September 25, 2023 by Jeremy408

[justwinbaby81]

Elaborated a bit more in another thread, but I don't see Davis firing/paying McDaniels $20M left on his contract to not coach and then paying another coach. I think they stay unless we completely implode. The players by and large did not implode and fought to the end. Davis does not want to pay yet another coach to leave. 

The two on the hot seat are Jimmy G and Patrick Graham. I don't see them here next year.

Edited September 25, 2023 by justwinbaby81

[Totty]

The question is: What should MD do?

Short answer: Fire Josh McDaniels immediately.  (I actually had McFraudiels written in there but took it out because I'm not even laughing about this.  Dead ***.)

I don't want to sit here and say "I told you so" to those of you who were happy or even accepting of this hire.  I was adamant that this would be a total failure from the jump and NOT ONE THING indicates anything positive from where we started.  

I hear all the "the players like him, they said X" nonsense. Man, they are professionals.  Paychecks are on the line here.  Wtf are they going to say?  Even Waller last year before the trade felt like "he had a plan for me in the red zone.". Couldn't be happier to beat Giant.  

They duffed the Carr situation.  Extent him > cut him.  Renfrow > pretty sure he's not on the team anymore.  Chandler Jones saga 🙄.  Not signing Josh to his 5th year option which is literally the easiest path forward.  Not addressing the offensive line, drafting has been HIGHLY SUSPECT. On and on and on.  That's all BEFORE we get to wins and losses.  Unreal.  

This franchise is an absolute mess.  We had to go to a ******* silent count in OUR HOUSE.   It's top down.  Mark, Dave, Sandra (you're drunk if you think we're paying those prices for tickets for this franchise right now).  THEN Josh.  If one doesn't want to stay without the other, send um all.  Start over.  Maybe even bring in some football people to help aide in the making of these decisions?  Can't fire the owner, but I wish I could.  I vote "no confidence" in any of them.  

[Nightmare]

4 minutes ago, justwinbaby81 said:

Elaborated a bit more in another thread, but I don't see Davis firing/paying McDaniels $20M left on his contract to not coach and then paying another coach. I think they stay unless we completely implode. The players by and large did not implode and fought to the end. Davis does not want to pay yet another coach to leave. 

The two on the hot seat are Jimmy G and Patrick Graham. I don't see them here next year.

I also think the financial side of potential firings is being overblown here. This isn’t an attack on your post btw, but more on the media speculation last year about how we couldn’t fire JM for financial reasons.

For a start, the line that we “couldn’t afford” to do it makes no sense. The Raiders and Mark Davis have been raking it in since moving to Vegas. Look at those ticket prices every week. We used to be a relatively cash poor team when based in Oakland, but I don’t buy that we couldn’t afford it given the income generated in the past 4 years.

Secondly, nobody really knows the financial side of the Gruden departure. Maybe we are still paying him, or we settled for a decent percentage of the $60m he was still due on his contract, but given the circumstances in which he departed I doubt we’re on the hook for anywhere near his full guaranteed deal. (He has also been working for the Saints as a consultant which makes me think we are no longer actively paying him, as usually as part of these kind of settlements he wouldn’t be able to take another paid role).

And finally, McDaniels won’t be one of the higher earners in the league, nor is he on a nonsense contract duration like Gruden was. It wouldn’t be breaking the bank to fire him with 2 years left.

 

Of course having to fire McDaniels, and his coaching staff, and probably Ziegler isn’t ideal. It’s still millions of dollars down the drain. But there should be no issue with affording it.

[TLO]

30 minutes ago, Nightmare said:

Have we fired anyone too soon, though?

Del Rio got 3 full years, the latter of which we took a big step back from the previous one and I think most were in agreement that he had reached a ceiling.

Gruden was into his 4th year before his departure, which wasn’t so much a firing as a mutual operation designed to save face for all involved.

Bisaccia was the interim guy, who admittedly did well but will clearly never get a HC gig at this level again.

If McDaniels gets canned during or after his second season, it will be 1) an exception from the norm, and 2) absolutely deserved.

Adding to this, Del Rio also wouldn’t have gotten canned if Gruden wasn’t willing to come back. 
 

Feels like McDaniels history of flaming out doesn’t help him either. Don’t think it’ll scare anyone off if he gets canned. 

[NCOUGHMAN]

Mark balling he can afford shi nowadays 

hard to get rid of them when the whole roster ex-patriots 

I think they get the rest of the year I think this will get uglier 

[OldManWillis]

1 hour ago, NickButera said:

Keep Zeigler. Get rid of McDaniels mid season. That won't happen. Davis will wait until seasons end and give Zeigler one last chance to build up the roster with a new franchise QB prospect and new coach. 

Do we want Zeigler though? His selection of players through draft and free agency has left a lot to be desired.

I try and be optimistic about the coaches and give them a fair chance even when I don't want to, but If we move on from McDaniels, then Ziegler needs to go too. 

 

[ronjon1990]

I'm in the same  position I was in when they first announced the hire: Yuck. 

Should have never happened, and some people tried to sound the alarm. Alas, none of us here actually make the decision, so....

Anyways, I would can McDaniels yesterday. He's a fraud and has no business as a HC. Period. If I never see his stupid face again, it will be too soon. He's a bum, a narcissist, and a tool. He 100% has to go. 

Zeigler, I'd give a 3rd year to. But that's up to him. If he's so attached to McDaniels that he won't fire him, fire him too. This is a business, not a vanity project. And I'd tell Dave point blank that if he ever wants to taste a GM role again, he'll ditch Josh’s absolutely toxic brand because there's no chance in he'll Josh McDaniels gets a 3rd HC gig after this, and Zeigler hasn't been knocking home run balls himself. 

[#1RAIDER FAN]

3 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said:

I'm in the same  position I was in when they first announced the hire: Yuck. 

Should have never happened, and some people tried to sound the alarm. Alas, none of us here actually make the decision, so....

Anyways, I would can McDaniels yesterday. He's a fraud and has no business as a HC. Period. If I never see his stupid face again, it will be too soon. He's a bum, a narcissist, and a tool. He 100% has to go. 

Zeigler, I'd give a 3rd year to. But that's up to him. If he's so attached to McDaniels that he won't fire him, fire him too. This is a business, not a vanity project. And I'd tell Dave point blank that if he ever wants to taste a GM role again, he'll ditch Josh’s absolutely toxic brand because there's no chance in he'll Josh McDaniels gets a 3rd HC gig after this, and Zeigler hasn't been knocking home run balls himself. 

Do you really think they would keep Zeigler? Or that we would even want that? He came attached to McDaniels. They are college buddies. Its not like this team is overly talented and he's never hired a HC. If he stays and hires a HC, he feels like a lame duck. If you hire a strong coach, and the team underperforms you are firing a GM and giving the HC the authority. If you hire a weak HC, because you have a weak GM, then you are lame ducking the coach as well. 

Just reminds me of the current Broncos. Do you think Sean Payton gets fired? no. The GM does and Sean Payton becomes GM or hand picks his yes man.

[MrOaktown_56]

Give him the year. If we don’t turn it around fire him happily.

[NickButera]

The superbowl is in Vegas this year. Perhaps Davis rakes in enough $$ that helps him make this hard decision.