2024 WR Talk

[CWood21]

3 hours ago, tyler735 said:

I still stand by that he’s not as freakish of an athlete as Marvin Harrison and even his teammate Brian Thomas. Malik definitely tested very well in the vertical. As always a pro day 40 time can leave some doubt. It looks like they only hand timed him as I did not see any equipment for an electronic time.

In other words, his hand times ranged anywhere from “mid 4.35 range to 4.40 range”. More than likely he would have been a high 4.3/low 4.4 range had he had electronic timing putting him where many (myself included) would have predicted in the first place.

I mean, go compare Brian Thomas' Combine numbers and Malik Nabers' Pro Day numbers.  The only thing Brian Thomas has on Malik Nabers is 2.5" and about 9 pounds.  But Nabers' numbers are better than Thomas all-around.  Brian Thomas is a really good WR prospect, and probably would be being talked about as a guaranteed top 15 pick if he would have played anywhere but LSU or Ohio State, but Malik Nabers was the go-to WR in Baton Rouge.  This is a very easy one.  Don't overthink this one.  Malik Nabers would be hands down WR1 in any other draft that didn't have a JaMarr Chase/MHJ/AJ Green-level of prospect.  And that's not a knock on Odunze by any means.

[tyler735]

8 hours ago, CWood21 said:

I mean, go compare Brian Thomas' Combine numbers and Malik Nabers' Pro Day numbers.  The only thing Brian Thomas has on Malik Nabers is 2.5" and about 9 pounds.  But Nabers' numbers are better than Thomas all-around.  Brian Thomas is a really good WR prospect, and probably would be being talked about as a guaranteed top 15 pick if he would have played anywhere but LSU or Ohio State, but Malik Nabers was the go-to WR in Baton Rouge.  This is a very easy one.  Don't overthink this one.  Malik Nabers would be hands down WR1 in any other draft that didn't have a JaMarr Chase/MHJ/AJ Green-level of prospect.  And that's not a knock on Odunze by any means.

More freakish athlete in no way means "better WR". We are talking about 2 vastly different things. Brian Thomas tested as the bigger physical freak. 6'3" vs 6', 209lbs vs 199lbs, 4.33 (electronic) vs 4.35 (hand held Pro Day time). Nabers did do better in the vertical and broad jump by 3" in both metrics. Brian Thomas- 9.97 RAS (10th best ever for WR) vs Malik Nabers- 9.88 RAS (38th ever for WR). 

If we are talking who the better WR is, Malik Nabers and it's not particularly close. I honestly wouldn't be shocked to see Brian Thomas bust. He seems like a classic Boom/Bust prospect. Where he could also be a really good WR as well, but a bigger risk. Nabers I'm pretty confident will be a top 10 and maybe even top 5 WR in the NFL at some point. However, that's not because he is a more "freakish" athlete than Brian Thomas, it's because he is flat out a better football player. 

Edited March 29 by tyler735

[CWood21]

24 minutes ago, tyler735 said:

More freakish athlete in no way means "better WR". We are talking about 2 vastly different things. Brian Thomas tested as the bigger physical freak. 6'3" vs 6', 209lbs vs 199lbs, 4.33 (electronic) vs 4.35 (hand held Pro Day time). Nabers did do better in the vertical and broad jump by 3" in both metrics. Brian Thomas- 9.97 RAS (10th best ever for WR) vs Malik Nabers- 9.88 RAS (38th ever for WR). 

If we are talking who the better WR is, Malik Nabers and it's not particularly close. I honestly wouldn't be shocked to see Brian Thomas bust or at the very least live up to his draft status. Nabers I'm pretty confident will be a top 10 and maybe even top 5 WR in the NFL at some point. However, that's not because he is a more "freakish" athlete than Brian Thomas, it's because he is flat out a better football player. 

Again, 2.5" and 9 pounds isn't a big enough difference for me.  That's why using RAS scores as an end-all, be-all isn't a good discussion.  It give you a sample of how good an athlete is, but that's about it.  Malik Nabers is a freak, and diminishing his athleticism because his teammate is slightly more athletic seems odd.

[tyler735]

16 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

Again, 2.5" and 9 pounds isn't a big enough difference for me.  That's why using RAS scores as an end-all, be-all isn't a good discussion.  It give you a sample of how good an athlete is, but that's about it.  Malik Nabers is a freak, and diminishing his athleticism because his teammate is slightly more athletic seems odd.

Brian Thomas is 3” taller, 10lbs bigger, and has a faster 40 time. Nabers is very athletic, he’s not a more freakish athlete than Brian Thomas. It’s not “odd” it just is what it is. The most “freakish” athlete is rarely the best football player. We were discussing their athleticism. Not their overall skills as football players.

Edited March 28 by tyler735

[DirtyDez]

6 hours ago, tyler735 said:

I still stand by that he’s not as freakish of an athlete as Marvin Harrison and even his teammate Brian Thomas. Malik definitely tested very well in the vertical. As always a pro day 40 time can leave some doubt. It looks like they only hand timed him as I did not see any equipment for an electronic time.

In other words, his hand times ranged anywhere from “mid 4.35 range to 4.40 range”. More than likely he would have been a high 4.3/low 4.4 range had he had electronic timing putting him where many (myself included) would have predicted in the first place.

Nabers is also younger than those guys which isn’t nothing in terms of physical development.  He doesn’t turn 21 until late July.  He probably could’ve been a true sophomore since was 20yo all season.  

[Danger]

On 3/28/2024 at 2:31 PM, tyler735 said:

More freakish athlete in no way means "better WR". We are talking about 2 vastly different things. Brian Thomas tested as the bigger physical freak. 6'3" vs 6', 209lbs vs 199lbs, 4.33 (electronic) vs 4.35 (hand held Pro Day time). Nabers did do better in the vertical and broad jump by 3" in both metrics. Brian Thomas- 9.97 RAS (10th best ever for WR) vs Malik Nabers- 9.88 RAS (38th ever for WR). 

If we are talking who the better WR is, Malik Nabers and it's not particularly close. I honestly wouldn't be shocked to see Brian Thomas bust. He seems like a classic Boom/Bust prospect. Where he could also be a really good WR as well, but a bigger risk. Nabers I'm pretty confident will be a top 10 and maybe even top 5 WR in the NFL at some point. However, that's not because he is a more "freakish" athlete than Brian Thomas, it's because he is flat out a better football player. 

BTJ needs to expand his route repertoire 

[tyler735]

31 minutes ago, Danger said:

BTJ needs to expand his route repertoire 

Very much so.

[MOSteelers56]

1 hour ago, Danger said:

BTJ needs to expand his route repertoire 

He reminds me a lot of Martavis Bryant. 

[Ozzy]

On 3/28/2024 at 9:11 AM, tyler735 said:

I still stand by that he’s not as freakish of an athlete as Marvin Harrison and even his teammate Brian Thomas. Malik definitely tested very well in the vertical. As always a pro day 40 time can leave some doubt. It looks like they only hand timed him as I did not see any equipment for an electronic time.

In other words, his hand times ranged anywhere from “mid 4.35 range to 4.40 range”. More than likely he would have been a high 4.3/low 4.4 range had he had electronic timing putting him where many (myself included) would have predicted in the first place.

Agreed, on the field Nabers does not seem like some absolute burner that can just fly by dudes consistently.  He is a smooth route runner and glides on the field, very promising WR but I would not call him some 4.3 burner at the position.  I agree I kind of question that 40 time at the pro day, just like Spencer Brown back in the day having the best RAS score ever for OTs or something, but that was back in COVID and all anyone did was have Pro days and all the numbers were clearly a bit stretched or not as accurate as at the combine.  

 

Nabers and Odunze both averaged 17+ yards per catch.  To me Odunze can take contact better and is better going up and getting the football in the air.  Also to me he has better hands as well.   Both are great players but I think Odunze has the nod possibly.

 

Still the people that have Nabers above of Marvin Harrison Jr is just flat out insane.  Harrison Jr is getting knocked because he is not working out but if he did he would show some outstanding athletic ability.  Nabers and Odunze is a debate, Nabers and Harrison Jr there is no debate.  And yes being the son of a all time professional WR who is a Hall of Famer does help Harrison Jr because one knows the work ethic and character you are getting there.  

[Danger]

If I had to guess, I'd probably expect MHJr to run in the 4.52-4.54 range which is completely fine.

[MagicMT]

7 hours ago, Ozzy said:

Still the people that have Nabers above of Marvin Harrison Jr is just flat out insane.  

People who disagree with me are insane! 
Nabers is WR1 baby 

[MagicMT]

8 hours ago, MOSteelers56 said:

He reminds me a lot of Martavis Bryant. 

Totally agree, that's what I see too. Both didn't seem that fast but they were/are just gliding past CBs with ease. To me BTJ has a crazy ceiling but a very low floor and a decent chance to bust. 

[Tugboat]

1 hour ago, MagicMT said:

Totally agree, that's what I see too. Both didn't seem that fast but they were/are just gliding past CBs with ease. To me BTJ has a crazy ceiling but a very low floor and a decent chance to bust. 

Brian Thomas Jr is very "raw" as a route runner with a limited tree and limited ask from that LSU offense...but i'm not sure that inherently gives him a super high "bust factor" risk.  At the end of the day, the skillset that he's already outstanding at is one that plenty of receivers make a good living on in the NFL.  His H-W-S profile and natural ability to track deep balls over his shoulder is pretty plug 'n play to me as an outside deep threat.

The real question is...if he's going to have the ability to diversify his route running and skillset to become a more complete WR1...or if he's just going to plateau as what he is...a big, fast, deep ball receiver that lifts the lid off a defense.  I wouldn't really consider that to be a total "bust".  But mileage may vary, especially depending on how high he ultimately ends up being picked.

[BRANDON26841X]

On 3/30/2024 at 12:48 PM, Danger said:

If I had to guess, I'd probably expect MHJr to run in the 4.52-4.54 range which is completely fine.

I've heard he's a pretty freaky tester actually, even if it maybe doesn't look like that on the field. He was #5 on this year's "Freaks List" that Bruce Feldman does, and he was #2 on last year's list. Those lists are usually pretty legit.

"The son of a Pro Football Hall of Fame receiver checks every box in a big way. Listed at 6-4, 208 pounds, he has everything. Harrison figures to do exceptionally well in interviews and testing. Despite his lanky frame, he’s a near 400-pound bencher and has done 20 reps at 225. He’s broad jumped 10-8 and clocked a 3.94 shuttle — it’s impressive to be that tall and have that kind of agility. Harrison has told The Athletic he’ll run in the high 4.3s in the 40. That might surprise some, but he did hit 23.5 MPH last year, so depending on his start, it seems realistic for a player who could become a top-three pick."

[Tugboat]

23 hours ago, BRANDON26841X said:

I've heard he's a pretty freaky tester actually, even if it maybe doesn't look like that on the field. He was #5 on this year's "Freaks List" that Bruce Feldman does, and he was #2 on last year's list. Those lists are usually pretty legit.

"The son of a Pro Football Hall of Fame receiver checks every box in a big way. Listed at 6-4, 208 pounds, he has everything. Harrison figures to do exceptionally well in interviews and testing. Despite his lanky frame, he’s a near 400-pound bencher and has done 20 reps at 225. He’s broad jumped 10-8 and clocked a 3.94 shuttle — it’s impressive to be that tall and have that kind of agility. Harrison has told The Athletic he’ll run in the high 4.3s in the 40. That might surprise some, but he did hit 23.5 MPH last year, so depending on his start, it seems realistic for a player who could become a top-three pick."

 

I think part of it with MHJ is just that he's so refined and in control of what he does, he just makes things look "easy" and often does things the easy way.  Knows just how much juice to use to win and it's so fluid...that ease of movement and body control is kind of "freaky" in it's own right.  It's almost a sort of deceptive freaky athleticism because it looks easy.

To where ultimately, i don't actually care all that much how "freaky" he is as a tested athlete.  He's got more than enough of everything to be an absolutely elite NFL WR...and he shows that he can do it "easily".