Random Raider Stuff

[NYRaider]

5 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

We would just now be talking about replacing them...

Sigh. 

Pretty incredible that over the past 20 years the only QB's we've drafted are:

• Marques Tuiasosopo (#59 overall) -  2001

• Andrew Walter (#69 overall) - 2005

• Jamarcus Russell (#1 overall) - 2007

• Tyler Wilson (#112 overal) - 2013

• Derek Carr (#36 overall) - 2014

• Connor Cook (#100 overall) - 2016 

[Jerry]

1 minute ago, NYRaider said:

Pretty incredible that over the past 20 years the only QB's we've drafted are:

• Marques Tuiasosopo (#59 overall) -  2001

• Andrew Walter (#69 overall) - 2005

• Jamarcus Russell (#1 overall) - 2007

• Tyler Wilson (#112 overal) - 2013

• Derek Carr (#36 overall) - 2014

• Connor Cook (#100 overall) - 2016 

Al Davis was always going after the vets.  We did sign T. Pryor though in that supp. draft.  Not that it really matters.  We do need to keep restocking that position.

[NYRaider]

2 minutes ago, Jerry said:

Al Davis was always going after the vets.  We did sign T. Pryor though in that supp. draft.  Not that it really matters.  We do need to keep restocking that position.

Over the last 40 years the only QB's we've drafted in the first round are Russell and Marinovich. 

I'd like to take a developmental QB with traits later in the draft. Mond was my guy but it looks like he's a 1st/2nd round pick now. Jamie Newman is a guy I'd like depending on where we could land him.

Edited April 22, 2021 by NYRaider

[Jerry]

2 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

Over the last 40 years the only QB's we've drafted in the first round are Russell and Marinovich. 

Ugly.  We won't be drafting a QB this year in the first either.

[BayRaider]

12 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

Pretty incredible that over the past 20 years the only QB's we've drafted are:

• Marques Tuiasosopo (#59 overall) -  2001

• Andrew Walter (#69 overall) - 2005

• Jamarcus Russell (#1 overall) - 2007

• Tyler Wilson (#112 overal) - 2013

• Derek Carr (#36 overall) - 2014

• Connor Cook (#100 overall) - 2016 

And we drafted Fabian Washington one pick before Aaron Rodgers if I remember correctly. 
 

And that’s not hindsight, I was young, but I loved Rodgers in that draft. Way more than Smith. 

[NCOUGHMAN]

18 hours ago, BayRaider said:

I wasn’t even the individual who brought the topic up or the opinion up. Wasn’t the first poster to call out “woke”, yet you quote me and no one else. Cool. Was simply replying to an already-being-had discussion of people sharing the same negative opinion of “woke” including @Bitty 2.0 @Humble_Beast And @Jerry

And you question my character...? Anyone who buys into “woke” stuff, I would have to question their intelligence. It’s just a huge power grab, popularity grab by Celebrities, Politicians, Businesses, etc. People who buy into it are people who legit have no Critical Thinking skills and believe whatever they hear from Celebrities, Media, etc.  Think Harder. Think Smarter. It’s manipulation. 
 

@jimkelly02can also go a 5 page rant explaining how “woke” is absolute non-sense.  
 

I’ll excuse myself out of this conversation. 

I’ve spoke out to numerous posts/posters even had numerous side convos with Jim. 

[Jerry]

22 minutes ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

I’ve spoke out to numerous posts/posters even had numerous side convos with Jim. 

Well when is my turn?  Lol.

[Jerry]

My good laugh of the day.  LOL....

[ronjon1990]

2 hours ago, Jerry said:

I read an interesting article on TheAthletic about building around rookie QBs for the Jets and Jaguars.  Kind of compared their situations.  Brought in the Bills as an example of how to successfully build around QBs.  Mentioned KC and Mahomes as well.  But I was really intrigued by what they said about the Bills. 

The article talked about how bringing in mid tier FAs instead of signing big name FAs like the Jets did is why the Bills have had more success.  Instead of signing 1-2 big name players, the Bills filled a bunch of positions with players on reasonably priced contracts via FA.  Kind of like how we've done this offseason with the DL.  I know it isn't the flashy, exciting offseason we wanted, but I do think our DL will be much improved this upcoming season.  We may not be a top 10 DL, but I think we'll be closer to the middle of the pack.  

I think signings like J. Brown, the DL (other than Ngakoue because he was a big name with a big contract), and the recent CB signing, are all the little moves that tip the scale in a positive direction.  I think having a reasonably priced OL is going to help as well, at least in terms of our ability to be able to distribute the cap more evenly between the offense and defense.  

I'll continue to be optimistic.

 

For talking long term (we'll say 5-8 years out), our situation is most reminiscent of the Chiefs. Smith wasn't lighting the world on fire, but he was a plenty capable enough QB. I don't think he ever got a real fair shake in SF, can't knock him for not holding Mahomes to backup QB, and Washington was a rebuilding project before (and after) his injury. I think Carr is in that same tier (maybe a notch higher even) in being a guy who can be a Pro Bowl guy on a regular basis in our offense. But that's where the comparison stops for me (for now) with Kansas City. Mahomes wasn't exactly "built around" from crap- hence me saying long term in the beginning. Whoever our next QB is (assuming we have one any time soon) should have a similar situation if things go to plan. 

 

As for the article itself (as it pertains to Jacksonville mostly), talk about cherry picking lol. I'll forever hate when people write about this or that team as proof of x or y, because it ignores so much context. Not saying the theme is always wrong, I just get bugged by it. The Bills got lucky as heck. Allen is a one in many prospects who was toolsy but had a ton of work to do that actually panned out, and even then, it took a while (which, imo, is perfectly fine. I still believe drafting a QB and grooming them for a few years is a practice that should return to being the norm). But McDermott was pathetically hapless and sitting on Mount Vesuvius before Allen turned it on. That man 100% owes his coaching reputation to Allen. Like I said, I don't necessarily disagree with the general idea, I just think Buffalo being used by writers is one of those hindsight being 20/20 with rose tinted glasses situations.

Anyways, as a recap, so we can compare our moves to Buffalo's (and compare Jacksonville's/other teams) for trying to figure out who our "guys" might be:

2017- Hyde and Poyer were fantastic low key signings. White (1st) and Milano (5th) were hits in the draft. 4 defensive starters. 

2018- Only notable names were Lotulelei and Murphy. Allen and Edmunds were hits, and Phillips is decent enough depth. Levi Wallace was a find as was Johnson. Franchise QB and a 5th, 6th, and 7th starter on D. 

2019- Beasely and Brown were very solid FA signings. Oliver, Ford, Singletary, and Knox were all good draft picks. Franchise QB, 2 solid WRs, a solid RB/backup, OL, TE, 8th D starter.

2020- Moss and Davis were good picks and should be starters going forward (or part of a really good committee in Moss' case). Adding Diggs was a huge upgrade at WR. Addison was a good signing. As was Butler. And Klein.

So over the last 4 seasons, not counting 2021 moves yet (almost as long as Gruden has been here, ironically), the Bills have added via FA and the Draft: Franchise QB (draft), top 2 RBs (draft), top 3 WRs (2 FA, 1 draft pick), starting TE (draft), a couple of OL (1 draft pick, the rest I'm too lazy to research lol), top 3 CBs (draft) starting SS (FA) and FS (FA), top 3 LBs (2 draft, 1 FA), starting DTs (1 draft, 1 FA), and a DE (FA) with 2 good rotational DTs (1 draft, 1 FA). 

13 of their key pieces were draft picks, 8 were FA signings (minus any OL I missed). The only "big name" would be Diggs, really. So there's definitely some credence to their routine. 

Biggest takeaway for me is that we've added some decent FA's, but boy do we need to draft better. A lot of their impact players from the draft were 3rd rounders or later. 

[Jerry]

4 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said:

For talking long term (we'll say 5-8 years out), our situation is most reminiscent of the Chiefs. Smith wasn't lighting the world on fire, but he was a plenty capable enough QB. I don't think he ever got a real fair shake in SF, can't knock him for not holding Mahomes to backup QB, and Washington was a rebuilding project before (and after) his injury. I think Carr is in that same tier (maybe a notch higher even) in being a guy who can be a Pro Bowl guy on a regular basis in our offense. But that's where the comparison stops for me (for now) with Kansas City. Mahomes wasn't exactly "built around" from crap- hence me saying long term in the beginning. Whoever our next QB is (assuming we have one any time soon) should have a similar situation if things go to plan. 

 

As for the article itself (as it pertains to Jacksonville mostly), talk about cherry picking lol. I'll forever hate when people write about this or that team as proof of x or y, because it ignores so much context. Not saying the theme is always wrong, I just get bugged by it. The Bills got lucky as heck. Allen is a one in many prospects who was toolsy but had a ton of work to do that actually panned out, and even then, it took a while (which, imo, is perfectly fine. I still believe drafting a QB and grooming them for a few years is a practice that should return to being the norm). But McDermott was pathetically hapless and sitting on Mount Vesuvius before Allen turned it on. That man 100% owes his coaching reputation to Allen. Like I said, I don't necessarily disagree with the general idea, I just think Buffalo being used by writers is one of those hindsight being 20/20 with rose tinted glasses situations.

Anyways, as a recap, so we can compare our moves to Buffalo's (and compare Jacksonville's/other teams) for trying to figure out who our "guys" might be:

2017- Hyde and Poyer were fantastic low key signings. White (1st) and Milano (5th) were hits in the draft. 4 defensive starters. 

2018- Only notable names were Lotulelei and Murphy. Allen and Edmunds were hits, and Phillips is decent enough depth. Levi Wallace was a find as was Johnson. Franchise QB and a 5th, 6th, and 7th starter on D. 

2019- Beasely and Brown were very solid FA signings. Oliver, Ford, Singletary, and Knox were all good draft picks. Franchise QB, 2 solid WRs, a solid RB/backup, OL, TE, 8th D starter.

2020- Moss and Davis were good picks and should be starters going forward (or part of a really good committee in Moss' case). Adding Diggs was a huge upgrade at WR. Addison was a good signing. As was Butler. And Klein.

So over the last 4 seasons, not counting 2021 moves yet (almost as long as Gruden has been here, ironically), the Bills have added via FA and the Draft: Franchise QB (draft), top 2 RBs (draft), top 3 WRs (2 FA, 1 draft pick), starting TE (draft), a couple of OL (1 draft pick, the rest I'm too lazy to research lol), top 3 CBs (draft) starting SS (FA) and FS (FA), top 3 LBs (2 draft, 1 FA), starting DTs (1 draft, 1 FA), and a DE (FA) with 2 good rotational DTs (1 draft, 1 FA). 

13 of their key pieces were draft picks, 8 were FA signings (minus any OL I missed). The only "big name" would be Diggs, really. So there's definitely some credence to their routine. 

Biggest takeaway for me is that we've added some decent FA's, but boy do we need to draft better. A lot of their impact players from the draft were 3rd rounders or later. 

I agree.  We really need to hit on this draft.  If half of our DL additions pan out (do better than expected), J. Brown provides similar production to Agholor (not as much, just enough to fill the void while Ruggs and Edwards contribute more to our pass attack), and the OL remains at least middle of the pack, then I think we are slowly trending in the right direction.  We need to continue to keep the players that do contribute on reasonable contracts while cutting the fat (T. Brown for example).  

I think we are closer to becoming Buffalo than we are to becoming Jacksonville.  

As for the hindsight 20/20 comment regarding Buffalo and how they lucked out with Allen.  Yeah, he's good, but you cannot take away from their FA classes.  I know they took our backup OG and now he's starting for them.  They did their research.  It shows.  The Jets have no idea what they're doing.  I assume they'll continue to shoot themselves in both feet and try to sprint towards relevance.  They'll most likely continue to be garbage.  We'll see with Jacksonville.  Team is just a dumpster fire.

[drfrey13]

53 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

And we drafted Fabian Washington one pick before Aaron Rodgers if I remember correctly. 
 

And that’s not hindsight, I was young, but I loved Rodgers in that draft. Way more than Smith. 

I think a lot of people thought it would/should have been Rodgers.  There was plenty of talk about him and Smith being 1-2 in the draft.  A lot of teams passed over Rodgers because of the Cal system.  We had Collins, Tui , and Walter but Rodgers value in the 20s was to much to pass on.  Could have sat behind Collins for a year and then we would have an open competition in 2006.  Instead we rolled with Aaron Brooks and still ended up with the #1 pick.  If we had Rodgers and Tui on the squad I doubt we draft Russell.  We would have had Sims at LT so we probably stay away from Thomas and maybe that leaves us with Megatron.  I know it is not realistic and many things could have changed but it is fun to imagine Rodgers and Megatron in silver and black.  The past 13-14 years would have been very different.  Speaking of Russell imagine the story Morrison tells about giving a blank CD Russel and asking him the next day what he thought of the plays.  Imagine if they would have done that before the draft.

[ronjon1990]

15 minutes ago, Jerry said:

The Jets have no idea what they're doing.  I assume they'll continue to shoot themselves in both feet and try to sprint towards relevance.  They'll most likely continue to be garbage. 

Yup. I can only hope they get desperate and want to trade up so we can hold their feet to the fire if someone drops we don't absolutely love. 

If our FO was as aggressive as Miami's in moving around and stockpiling picks, I'd get a Mayock tattoo. I envy them so much. 

[Jerry]

1 minute ago, ronjon1990 said:

Yup. I can only hope they get desperate and want to trade up so we can hold their feet to the fire if someone drops we don't absolutely love. 

If our FO was as aggressive as Miami's in moving around and stockpiling picks, I'd get a Mayock tattoo. I envy them so much. 

It's always more fun to stockpile picks.  I'd bet a couple hundred we are trading one of our thirds.  No way we keep two picks in a row.  Just doesn't seem smart.  We can probably move back 3-10 spots with one of those picks and pick a player on our draft board while adding picks on day 3.

[Bitty 2.0]

2 hours ago, NYRaider said:

Pretty incredible that over the past 20 years the only QB's we've drafted are:

• Marques Tuiasosopo (#59 overall) -  2001

• Andrew Walter (#69 overall) - 2005

• Jamarcus Russell (#1 overall) - 2007

• Tyler Wilson (#112 overal) - 2013

• Derek Carr (#36 overall) - 2014

• Connor Cook (#100 overall) - 2016 

The Raiders ruined Walter

[big_palooka]

3 hours ago, BayRaider said:

We would just now be talking about replacing them...

Sigh. 

Given what we know about the organization, do you think those QBs would have been nearly as successful as Raiders?