Trade Rumors and Discussion

[ET80]

4 hours ago, Forge said:

From what i understand, this is being misconstrued by the initial person (Kluge) and it was part of a "bold predictions" story...not actual insider reporting. 

@N4L...

[Fureys49ers]

20 minutes ago, ET80 said:

I think @Forge identified this as a "bold moves" type offer, one that was imaginary speculation by a Panthers beat writer - nothing of substance, just a "if I was in charge, I'd do this..." sort of response.

Could very well be from a panther beat writer as well, but just last week a draft podcast, “fixing” every team with offseason ideas, brought up this trade as well as a hypothetical. 
 

Just to add to the probable fake news behind this rumor. @N4L pretty much hit the nail on the head with post.

Edited February 17, 2021 by Fureys49ers

[brushmyhair]

The texans are going to give him an ultimatum on a destination. Miami or NY. Or he'll stay in Houston. If Houston is smart, they'll look to get a massive package of picks

[sammymvpknight]

7 hours ago, ET80 said:

I don't think he'd sit the ENTIRE season - he'd have to play 10 games I think to get the year credited to his contract - so he'd show up around week six, maybe fake and injury and dare the Texans to IR him.

It's out of character for such a competetor, but nobody really blames him...

Imagine a soccer player from South America pulling that stunt. What do you think would happen to him and/or his family?

[candyman93]

I feel like JJ would like playing in Cleveland. However, as I’ve stated repeatedly, Tampa Bay is his best option.

 

Our defense is not even average.

Edited February 17, 2021 by candyman93

[ET80]

32 minutes ago, sammymvpknight said:

Imagine a soccer player from South America pulling that stunt. What do you think would happen to him and/or his family?

A family member would lose a finger for every game they missed, I'd imagine...

[GW21]

50 minutes ago, brushmyhair said:

The texans are going to give him an ultimatum on a destination. Miami or NY. Or he'll stay in Houston. If Houston is smart, they'll look to get a massive package of picks

I understand the idea of compensation, but there is something to be said about getting him out of the conference.

[ET80]

11 hours ago, GW21 said:

I understand the idea of compensation, but there is something to be said about getting him out of the conference.

I don't disagree most of the, but when you're trading an asset like a top 5 franchise QB, you're maximizing return - you're already going to be burned no matter where they go, save for any sort of injury from the QB.

Outside of going to NYJ (which he could uplift to a 6-10 to 9-7 roster, which is a step up) Watson is turning just about any team mentioned to a SB contender - that's going to be a bad look for the Texans no matter which conference he's in.

So, that's going to be the narrative here, because we're pretty certain that the Texans will be a bottom feeder for a while, no matter how the picks turn out (save for some longshot like a QB from this draft - or next draft - exceeding Mahomes/Watson status, which is highly unlikely). 

There is very little options where the Texans come out of this looking good, so get as many picks as you can and hope that you find a winning lottery ticket somewhere in there.

[GW21]

2 minutes ago, ET80 said:

I don't disagree most of the, but when you're trading an asset like a top 5 franchise QB, you're maximizing return - you're already going to be burned no matter where they go, save for any sort of injury from the QB.

Outside of going to NYJ (which he could uplift to a 6-10 to 9-7 roster, which is a step up) Watson is turning just about any team mentioned to a SB contender - that's going to be a bad look for the Texans no matter which conference he's in.

So, that's going to be the narrative here, because we're pretty certain that the Texans will be a bottom feeder for a while, no matter how the picks turn out (save for some longshot like a QB from this draft - or next draft - exceeding Mahomes/Watson status, which is highly unlikely). 

There is very little options where the Texans come out of this looking good, so get as many picks as you can and hope that you find a winning lottery ticket somewhere in there.

Yeah, I definitely get what you are saying, but from what I've gathered the Texans don't really care much about optics. They gave away some pretty talented players and seemed to alienate maybe the best player they've ever had. Ultimately it will come down to Watson and what he's willing to accept: It'll be interesting to see if he is willing to play anywhere but Houston or if he's more picky about where he goes. Also, I imagine that the Texans FO is a bit more optimistic about how long it'll take to turn things around with the draft capital they receive from the Watson trade, so in their minds they may be thinking 'Do we really want to go up against Deshaun in the AFC playoffs for the next 10 years?' (or 5 years or whatever they think it'll take to turn that team back into a contender). This whole thing is a mess and it'll be really interesting to see how it all plays out. 

[ET80]

21 minutes ago, GW21 said:

Yeah, I definitely get what you are saying, but from what I've gathered the Texans don't really care much about optics.

Well, yes - I can agree with this. I'll say that this optics issue is mostly going to manifest itself by not moving Watson at ALL. All of this looks bad, but what's going to look worse is Watson as a healthy scratch/inactive for the Texans while AJ McCarron is starting.

21 minutes ago, GW21 said:

Also, I imagine that the Texans FO is a bit more optimistic about how long it'll take to turn things around with the draft capital they receive from the Watson trade, so in their minds they may be thinking 'Do we really want to go up against Deshaun in the AFC playoffs for the next 10 years?' (or 5 years or whatever they think it'll take to turn that team back into a contender). This whole thing is a mess and it'll be really interesting to see how it all plays out. 

I want to agree with you, but... man, it's hard to evaluate what irrational people do with any reliability, and if you had to use a word to describe the Texans FO, the 2nd or 3rd word used would be "irrational" (behind "stupid" and "dysfunctional").

I should preface my stances as such - I'm a rational person. You give me data points, I can draw reasonable conclusions and make sound judgement based on that information. That's not what the Texans do - they literally base every decision on a wing and a prayer. To call the Texans unconventional would be like calling water wet - thing is, this isn't Silicon Valley unconventional, this is significant failure after failure - the successful moves are less about the moves, more about the disaster that the AFCS was early on.

After a while, conventional is step you HAVE to take to get back to firm ground. That should have been Omar Khan, Matt Eberflus - not doubling down on Easterby's plan, y'know?

If I'm reading the tea leaves here - I sincerely think that the Texans FO believe that Watson will come back and will be on board for the next five years. You know that's not happening, I know that's not happening, but... They're really digging in on Watson strolling in to NRG with his trademark smile and pretending that nothing is going on.

[soflbillsfan]

While Easterby/McNair are to blame for what is taken place, what has Watson shown to an organization that is willing to spend the farm to get him? Look I am not blaming Watson for wanting out, it is just bad optics to see a guy act the way he is doing literally after signing a 160 mil deal 6 months ago, when the same people were in the office minus BoB. So if Easterby and McNair were such horrible people why is it that he signed an extension then? Hopkins was traded 4 months prior to extension so it couldn't have impacted him that much to not sign the deal, so it shouldnt be a massive issue now. Are we literally pulling all of this nonsense because McNair offered him a part in the hiring process and balked on it, even though every NFL team has never taken in to consideration the players opinion at the GM hiring level? 

He has pretty much gone radio silent, deleted everything on his social media related to the organization, and has been liking/following other teams on social media.  How will he react to this new team and will it be a honey moon stage where he is excited to be there but a year from now he is rethinking the idea? Houston has the weapons on that team its not like they didn't have anyone he was unable to throw to. Will Fuller is about to get paid on one team, Brandin Cooks was dealt multiple times for a 1st rd pick, not to mention coutee, stills, cobb etc. so he had help where he was at and wasn't a roster issue in that sense. So what happens if he is moved to lets say NYJ as an example, giving up multiple 1st rd picks this year and next in order to get him they lose out on the ability to draft top tier WR. Then you have a situation where guys like Allen Robinson, Chris Godwin, Galloday may get the franchise tag or sign with other teams. Or what happens if the oline isnt up to standards that he is seeing will he then start demanding to be involved in the process of roster moves for the new organization? These are questions teams need to think about before giving up the farm to get him.

At the end of the day both need to stop being stubborn and start communicating to each other to move on from it as I do not see why the Texans would want to trade him even if someone gave them 3 first rd picks his value is always going to be more on the team then off of it. 

Im sure someone will give me flack for this but I still think it is two rich people making a fuss while media eats it up and relays it to the fan base where we aren't getting the full story from their mouths and just getting misinformation from both sides.

[iknowcool]

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/nfl-insider-notes-dont-underestimate-david-tepper-and-the-panthers-in-the-deshaun-watson-sweepstakes/

I get the impression that the Jets and Dolphins are gonna be the only 2 teams willing/capable of out-bidding the Panthers.

[ET80]

1 hour ago, soflbillsfan said:

While Easterby/McNair are to blame for what is taken place, what has Watson shown to an organization that is willing to spend the farm to get him?

He's been elite/near elite over the past few seasons - he really took several steps forward in eliminating some flaws he had (taking too long in the pocket, taking unnecessary sacks, throwing balls into coverage when under intense pressure). There are games you watch him and you think "this guy is the perfect QB - he's got no flaws".

1 hour ago, soflbillsfan said:

Look I am not blaming Watson for wanting out, it is just bad optics to see a guy act the way he is doing literally after signing a 160 mil deal 6 months ago, when the same people were in the office minus BoB.

This is going to sound strange - but I think he REALLY liked BoB. No real lip service to some of the things he said in the past, he loved BoB and played hard for him.

This being said - in that three months that BoB got fired and Romeo was running the show, the story is that Easterby's power grew, exponentially at that. He was a guy running errands for the HC/FO, and now he's running practices and scheduling the week for every positional group. All of those things that he did that creeped people out were now taking center stage - he'd now leverage his position to talk to the team as if he had authority over the team in some capacity. I think Watson said it pretty clearly when he had his exit interview following the Titans game:

"We've all got to be on the same page," Watson said. "There's too many different minds, too many different ideas and too many people thinking they have this power, and it's not like that. We need someone that stands tall, and this is who we follow and this is the way it goes."   

Reading this, it seems as if it's directed to Easterby - BoB was fired, Easterby was named interim GM and started to act as if he ran the show. Watson indirectly says "he shouldn't have this power anymore" and... lo and behold, he has MORE power than originally thought.

It's strange to say, but Bill O'Brien was the devil we knew. The devil we didn't know was Jack Easterby, and that time without BoB let us know that Easterby was creating this culture that nobody wants to be a part of - both football ops people and business ops people. 

A lot of things changed in that three months without BoB. Not all of it for the better.

1 hour ago, soflbillsfan said:

How will he react to this new team and will it be a honey moon stage where he is excited to be there but a year from now he is rethinking the idea?

THIS is what I'm interested in - leading to this, Deshaun Watson is somebody who could do no wrong in Houston. The city could turn on James Harden, the city could turn on Jose Altuve, but not on Watson. Watson sits in the pocket for six seconds, dances around and takes a sack? We'd complain about the OL. Watson throws a pass that Keke Coutee tries to fully extend for, caroming off his hands and into a defenders hands? Dammit Coutee, catch that (or, Hopkins would have caught that). There was a lot of insulation for Watson from this crowd.

That sort of comes to an end now. If Watson somehow regresses from last season, he will be CRUCIFIED. Any team that trades for him? If he throws a few picks, he'll be blasted for it, simply because of the price paid. If he has a bad stretch of games, the narrative will quickly go against him as a "me first" player (even though he's not). We're quick to forget some of the things this guy has played through - the narrative is going to change on him no matter where he ends up, and only one thing can alter THAT narrative... and that's winning a SB.

1 hour ago, soflbillsfan said:

Houston has the weapons on that team its not like they didn't have anyone he was unable to throw to. Will Fuller is about to get paid on one team, Brandin Cooks was dealt multiple times for a 1st rd pick, not to mention coutee, stills, cobb etc.

So, correcting you here - Stills is no longer here. He's actually with Buffalo. (You should know that!)

1 hour ago, soflbillsfan said:

At the end of the day both need to stop being stubborn and start communicating to each other to move on from it as I do not see why the Texans would want to trade him even if someone gave them 3 first rd picks his value is always going to be more on the team then off of it. 

I can agree with this - but I think it's moreso actions that has any chance in salvaging this relationship. Cal has already proven his word is pretty worthless. He needs to live up to those words, but I don't know if that will really correct anything because Watson still has to work with people Easterby selected (David Culley, Josh McCown, Pep Hamilton, etc). Tim Kelly and Watson have a strong working relationship, so maybe he's the conduit? I don't know.

[soflbillsfan]

@ET80sorry as it came off a bit corky but my first question is really more so what has he done this offseason to prove other organizations that he wouldn't be a "diva" or whatever you would want to call it, as he currently is upset with Houston and how he is handling it. I know this is not the norm because both sides to me are in the wrong so calling him a diva isn't the right word for it but it's the closest thing I could think of to show he is selfish in a sense. I wasn't actually talking about his performance as we all have seen what he can do. For him to just make passive aggressive moves on social media while also not be willing to reach out to the ownership or organization when the Gm was hired and go radio silent is that something he would do in a new organization if he didn't get his way?

Stills came to Buffalo towards the end of the year he had him in the beginning and was available for 10 games. It was more of a statement that the Texans had depth and weapons on offense at Watson's disposal where you look at a team like the jets (since they are heavily mentioned as a trade partner) in which they have Mims and Crowder under contract and that is really it. He just wont have a good amount of options compared to what he had at his disposal for 2020 season. 

Is David Culley Easterby's guy though? He has had no connection with him or Nick Caserio in his career that would tie him together. If you want to count this hiring thats the extent of it. Watson has more of a connection with Culley then either of those two guys. So eventhough they hired Culley he shouldn't be swayed to be his gopher in which he tells Easterby all that is going on in his locker room and could be a good shield from both watson and easterby if they truly want it to work. To me I think the under the radar hire should be Pep Hamilton, he has tons of experience with amazing qbs, if Watson truly cares about coaching to benefit him I think the hiring of Hamilton is something that should be considered as 25+ years of qb coaching should not be over looked.

So does the crowd and media viewing him as doing nothing wrong the downfall of how he is acting out now knowing that he wouldn't catch much flack and the entire blame is on Easterby at this point while none is on himself? I just dislike the fact that he fought for a new contract which he rightfully deserved to then just throw it out the window 5-6 months later as if he is the victim of not getting his way. I agree that no matter what McNair says or does it wont change the fact he made the mistake of telling him he could be included and not. 

 

[Broncofan]

54 minutes ago, soflbillsfan said:

@ET80sorry as it came off a bit corky but my first question is really more so what has he done this offseason to prove other organizations that he wouldn't be a "diva" or whatever you would want to call it, as he currently is upset with Houston and how he is handling it. I know this is not the norm because both sides to me are in the wrong so calling him a diva isn't the right word for it but it's the closest thing I could think of to show he is selfish in a sense. I wasn't actually talking about his performance as we all have seen what he can do. For him to just make passive aggressive moves on social media while also not be willing to reach out to the ownership or organization when the Gm was hired and go radio silent is that something he would do in a new organization if he didn't get his way?

Stills came to Buffalo towards the end of the year he had him in the beginning and was available for 10 games. It was more of a statement that the Texans had depth and weapons on offense at Watson's disposal where you look at a team like the jets (since they are heavily mentioned as a trade partner) in which they have Mims and Crowder under contract and that is really it. He just wont have a good amount of options compared to what he had at his disposal for 2020 season. 

Is David Culley Easterby's guy though? He has had no connection with him or Nick Caserio in his career that would tie him together. If you want to count this hiring thats the extent of it. Watson has more of a connection with Culley then either of those two guys. So eventhough they hired Culley he shouldn't be swayed to be his gopher in which he tells Easterby all that is going on in his locker room and could be a good shield from both watson and easterby if they truly want it to work. To me I think the under the radar hire should be Pep Hamilton, he has tons of experience with amazing qbs, if Watson truly cares about coaching to benefit him I think the hiring of Hamilton is something that should be considered as 25+ years of qb coaching should not be over looked.

So does the crowd and media viewing him as doing nothing wrong the downfall of how he is acting out now knowing that he wouldn't catch much flack and the entire blame is on Easterby at this point while none is on himself? I just dislike the fact that he fought for a new contract which he rightfully deserved to then just throw it out the window 5-6 months later as if he is the victim of not getting his way. I agree that no matter what McNair says or does it wont change the fact he made the mistake of telling him he could be included and not. 

 

As for what Watson's done to show he won't be a diva, you only need to look at his entire history, and put this offseason's events in the entire context.   Watson's put up with a TON of bad FO moves before coming to this decision.   This isn't even close to on Watson - it's on the FO & McNair.

This sums it up, no need to re-post, I'll just re-link it.

The 2 story links on Easterby in the post above give all the background - and the background is eye-opening.  And this has also led to the following:

-JJ Watt, who's endured even more struggles in HOU, but never once thought about leaving - finally wanted out.   He's literally the heart of this franchise, even more than Watson, after Hurricane Harvey.   And even he wanted out.

-Former and current players are holding zero ill will for Watson - and the former players are usually ones who call out present-day players for not appreciating what they have.   And yet other than Brett Favre (which is ironic, since he forced his way out of GB to MIN, but seems to have forgotten that), they're all behind Watson.  Lifelong Texan greats like Andre2K.

-Finally, even the HOU fanbase, the ones who usually turn against players who want to leave, don't show anything but love to Watson, and don't blame him.   You don't have to take it from me, the hardcore guys like @ET80 have already confirmed this.

Again, the reason why so many teams are inquiring already - they get this isn't on Watson.   A deeper look into the Texans' gong show of moves for the last 2 offseasons really highlights why ppl shouldn't be worried about Watson here.  It's not him, other than being foolish enough to trust the FO/McNair on holding their promise to him.  Otherwise, it's all FO / McNair.