NateDawg Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 I’m sure this will turn into a conversation where the word charlatan is thrown out there quite often, but I do wonder what the off-season negotiation will be like with Mayfield. I think they can win with him, and they have proven that. But I do think it is evident when you look at some of the elite quarterback’s around the NFL, he is not in that category. I think it would be madness at this point to give him a Russell Wilson type of contract. I do wonder whether he is willing to take a contract that is significantly under that dollar amount, long term, whether he chooses to bet on himself and play out his contract and a future franchise tag, etc. I can see things going any number of directions, but I am confident they will work out a way for him to stay in Cleveland long term. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 1 minute ago, NateDawg said: I’m sure this will turn into a conversation where the word charlatan is thrown out there quite often, but I do wonder what the off-season negotiation will be like with Mayfield. I think they can win with him, and they have proven that. But I do think it is evident when you look at some of the elite quarterback’s around the NFL, he is not in that category. I think it would be madness at this point to give him a Russell Wilson type of contract. I do wonder whether he is willing to take a contract that is significantly under that dollar amount, long term, whether he chooses to bet on himself and play out his contract and a future franchise tag, etc. I can see things going any number of directions, but I am confident they will work out a way for him to stay in Cleveland long term. I wouldn’t be shocked if he bets on himself and delays a long term deal tbh. This could be Dak 2.0. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 Baker is a "bet on himself" kind of guy, and I respect that more than about any other quality out there. He's got every intangible leadership skill, he's an intense competitor, he takes accountability/responsibility, and he's passionate. He's improved every single year, and while he needs to really take that "next step" into being able to carry a team once that script is no longer valid, I'm confident that he's going to be able to do that down the stretch this year and next year. I'm rooting for him to completely make us pay him. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtmmike Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 Extend him 100 rating qbs a few and far between Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdrawkcab321 Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 Easy throw to Odell? Nah Triple coverage to DPJ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtmmike Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 3 hours ago, MWil23 said: Baker is a "bet on himself" kind of guy, and I respect that more than about any other quality out there. He's got every intangible leadership skill, he's an intense competitor, he takes accountability/responsibility, and he's passionate. He's improved every single year, and while he needs to really take that "next step" into being able to carry a team once that script is no longer valid, I'm confident that he's going to be able to do that down the stretch this year and next year. I'm rooting for him to completely make us pay him. Due you think if the defense is healthy plus Baker plays that well we could get to the Super Bowl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mega Ron Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 He needs to wake up feeling dangerous again 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkPrice25 Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 Baker is a good QB. He's not elite and never will be. But give him a supporting cast and he'll be top 12-ish for most of his prime years. I believe that if Eli Manning can win 2 rings, Baker can win at least 1. To those who don't see it with Baker, I get it, but he's our guy for the foreseeable future. I just don't see any feasible obviously better option to replace him, barring a one-in-a-billion crazy Tom Brady mid to late round pick scenario. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2ThaIzzo Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 let's just run through a list of Super Bowl starting QB's since 2000. Eli Manning won two. Ben went to three. Look at some of the other names on the list not named Brady, Peyton, Rodgers, the obvious, there were plenty of guys in there that are not known as elite, or upper echelon QB's. Some of these guys, including the HOF group, won at least one Super Bowl due to the way their defense played, or how they ran the ball, not because of how they played in particular. All of this regular season comparing means absolutely nothing. The important thing is getting the job done when it matters, which is the playoffs. Our guy is 1-1 in playoffs, and could have been 2 wins if the NFL had any capability of officiating consistently or well at all. Football is a team game, its won and lost by a team. Yet, every time we win a football game it's considered in spite of Baker, and when we lose, even in a game like yesterday where we scored 40+ points, it's because of him. Other QB's are allowed to have bad games, or make a mistake, and its fine. But not 6. Dilfer Collins Brady Warner Johnson Gannon Brady Delhomme Brady Mcnabb Roethlisberger Hasselbeck Manning Grossman E. Manning Brady Roethlisberger Warner Brees Manning Rodgers Roethlisberger E. Manning Brady Flacco Kaepernick Wilson Manning Brady Wilson Manning Newton Brady Ryan Foles Brady Brady Goff Mahomes Garoppolo Brady Mahomes 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2ThaIzzo Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 1 hour ago, MarkPrice25 said: Baker is a good QB. He's not elite and never will be. But give him a supporting cast and he'll be top 12-ish for most of his prime years. I believe that if Eli Manning can win 2 rings, Baker can win at least 1. To those who don't see it with Baker, I get it, but he's our guy for the foreseeable future. I just don't see any feasible obviously better option to replace him, barring a one-in-a-billion crazy Tom Brady mid to late round pick scenario. what do we consider elite? To me, it's odd that we look at a QB that's 26 years old, in a game where we have seen franchise QB's who currently are playing into their late 30's or longer still playing at a high level, and we assume that he will never become that. When did Peyton Manning become elite? Was it after his SB victory in 2006 (he beat Rex Grossman in a game where his team had 3 field goals and a defensive touchdown)? Was it in the seasons in between when he was setting records (that Baker Mayfield was on pace to beat, BTW), but not getting it done in the postseason? Is the only way Baker can be considered elite is if he throws 3 TD's every game? Is that what's holding him back? Because we have a hell of a run game and when we get into the goal situations, we tend to pound it in? I bet other contenders would love to have the running game we do, and we keep playing football, and get healthy, and continue to learn from mistakes and rebound from a loss with a win, we will be where we need to come playoffs. I'm riding with 6. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Empire Lies Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 15 hours ago, NateDawg said: I’m sure this will turn into a conversation where the word charlatan is thrown out there quite often, but I do wonder what the off-season negotiation will be like with Mayfield. I think they can win with him, and they have proven that. But I do think it is evident when you look at some of the elite quarterback’s around the NFL, he is not in that category. I think it would be madness at this point to give him a Russell Wilson type of contract. I do wonder whether he is willing to take a contract that is significantly under that dollar amount, long term, whether he chooses to bet on himself and play out his contract and a future franchise tag, etc. I can see things going any number of directions, but I am confident they will work out a way for him to stay in Cleveland long term. Indeed. It's an grand mystery when it comes to the type of money Baker and his agent's will firmly seek in contract negotiations versus what Andrew Berry, DePo, and the Brown's other top thinking analytic & personnel strategy execs feel about Baker. One thing is certain at this point: There's no viable alternatives to Baker via the draft or free agency this year. The Browns aren't giving up the resources to benefit from Russell Wilson or Deshaun Watson's talents (and that's assuming that Watson was proven innocent). So, it has to be all-in on Baker. He's certainly good enough to win with against the vast majority of the NFL and he has the raw ability to provide a good chance to beat the top tier of the NFL assuming he continues to progress/develop. The Browns were a few blown defensive assignments or ref bad calls away from winning yesterday. He's just not in top tier of next-level, transcendent talents which is a rare tier of ability in the first place. There's disagreements regarding whether he'll ever be able to get to that tier or not. Against top competition and top QBs, the games are going to be close, but what separates the good from great QBs is that throughout the game and more so when it's a 1 score game in the 4th Quarter the great QBs are such because on 5 to 8 critical moments/plays, the team succeeds BECAUSE of their rare displays of decision-making, throwing ability, running ability, extending of a play, leadership, and/or pre-snap/post-snap decisions. And that's often despite surrounding factors or performance of teammates not being at their best. That top elite level play is not sustainable constantly b/c QBs aren't machines and there will be bad moments, but the elite QBs more often then not are the difference in winning in those critical moments throughout a large sample size of opportunities. Being proficient through most of the game or having 70% to 90% completion percentage is nice but it's those 5 to 8 critical plays in big moments that separate the good from the great. Baker's a good QB. Can he still take that next step? Who can say for sure. He's still young and there's a lot of contextual factors that go into shaping the various potential outcomes. What's true is, he's not there now even accounting for shoulder injury or whatever else. The real puzzle is: What does Kevin Stefanski think of Baker really with that 3rd down play call? Was it just a mistake play-call Does he know Baker's injury is worse than being let on? Or did he not trust Baker to make the play more than Kareem? The Chargers despite their faith in Austin Ekeler would never run it there and take the ball out of Herbert's hand. That 3rd down play-call and what it means versus isn't looms large. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candyman93 Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 The safe thing would be to just franchise tag him. Don’t do what the Eagles did in overpaying Wentz and the Rams did in overpaying Goff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buno67 Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawgX Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 39 minutes ago, buno67 said: ... I feel like that can't be true, though. But maybe I'm wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buno67 Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 16 minutes ago, DawgX said: ... I feel like that can't be true, though. But maybe I'm wrong. most points manning ever put up in a lost was 35. brees has one with a 46pt L. brady High point L is 34pts. Rivers has 2 games at 38pt Ls farve is a 31 L Rodgers is 36. Stafford is 41 L seems pretty legit, which seems crazy! You shouldn’t lose games when you scored 40+ pts 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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