NFL News & Notes

[CWood21]

4 minutes ago, HeresAGuy said:

Making a similar comparison, we brought James Jones back.  He wasnt nearly the WR he was after we brought him back, but he still had plenty of utility and we got plays out of him.  Jordy Nelson is a better WR here and now than what James Jones was when we brought him back under the same circumstances.  For whatever reason, we kept Cobb, who has been mediocre at best this year and similarly unable to stay healthy.  What exactly is it that Cobb does that is better than Nelson?  Theyre pretty similar right now in their career trajectories.

Look at the guys behind James Jones that year.  You had Jared Abbrederis and Jeff Janis.  This year, we have ESB and J'Mon Moore.  Those two are more talent than Abby and Janis.

[Shanedorf]

30 minutes ago, vegas492 said:

You make too much sense sometimes.

My response would be simple...he loves football and I think he is close with #12. 

Jordy can come spend an afternoon with the WRs, but I can't see him taking on a larger role especially in the middle of the season. Luke Getsy was a really good WR coach, but he moved upward to greater things and David Raih ain't ready to be THE MAN just yet. . Raih too needs time to grow into the role and many of the nuances of the playing the position would come from a a Jordy-like advisor.
A smaller, part time gig seems viable but Jordy can't be seen as usurping Raih's authority -  or that room full of young impressionable guys falls apart

[Packerraymond]

I'm not sure bringing back the guy Rodgers stares down more than anything is a recipe for anything other than maybe an even more stagnant offense. EQ and MVS are getting open. 

[Malfatron]

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[thrILL!]

18 minutes ago, HeresAGuy said:

Jordy Nelson is a better WR here and now than what James Jones was when we brought him back under the same circumstances.  

No he’s not.  If that were even remotely true, we would’ve brought him back before the season started.  His time in Oakland only confirms this.  

[{Family Ghost}]

Just now, Packerraymond said:

I'm not sure bringing back the guy Rodgers stares down more than anything is a recipe for anything other than maybe an even more stagnant offense. EQ and MVS are getting open. 

Agreed .. do not want to see Nelson back.  Rodgers has fit MVS in pretty well .. now time to get EQ some better opportunities than some line of scrimmage passes that stand no chance of working.  What did he have yesterday .. 2 catches for 3 yards.  I also hope they bury Cobb for the rest of the year.  Out with the old .. in with the up and coming youngsters.

[eyecatcher]

Jordy had the least accurate passer in the league throwing to him for most of 2017.  To use that as a comparison to MVS isn't fair.  I'm not sure bringing Jordy back would help much but lets not act like his season last year was indicative of anything other than his QB sucked.  Before Rodgers was injured, Nelson had 25 receptions for 290 yards and 6 TDs.  in 5 games.  After that he had 28 more catches for 192 yards and 0 TDs.  3 of those 28 were in the Carolina game with Rodgers for 28 more yards when Rodgers was anything but sharp.  

[TheOnlyThing]

19 minutes ago, HeresAGuy said:

For whatever reason, we kept Cobb, who has been mediocre at best this year and similarly unable to stay healthy.  What exactly is it that Cobb does that is better than Nelson?  Theyre pretty similar right now in their career trajectories.

As one who advocated cutting both Cobb & Nelson last offseason, and perhaps bringing just one of them back on a much reduced contract, the only reason I can see that Cobb was kept over Nelson is age.

But your implication that Cobb is not much better, if at all, for the Packers than Nelson would be right now is correct in my view.

And Cobb and Nelson are definitely both at similar trajectories in their careers, at least as far as the Packers are concerned.

Nelson's career in GB done and Cobb's will be done in about two months when he will join Jordy as an ex-Packer.

 

[HeresAGuy]

3 minutes ago, thrILL! said:

No he’s not.  If that were even remotely true, we would’ve brought him back before the season started.  His time in Oakland only confirms this.  

Larry Fitzgerald would look awful in oakland.  Megatron would have looked awful in Oakland.  Literally every WR that was, is, and ever will be would look awful in Oakland right now.  Using anyone in Oakland as a barometer for anything other "how to murder a franchise" is just lazy.  Im not gonna sit here and say i watched tape of Nelson, but being on the west coast ive been force fed more Raiders games than Id watch voluntarily.  That team is the definition of trash.  I could not fault anyone for playing the game at half speed with half motivation on that team, and I think thats part of the issue.  When you enter a team thats a black hole, that has nothing going for it, you lose motivation.  Tom Brady and Peyton Manning would lose motivation with the Raiders.  The Raiders would have neutered Ray Lewis even, theyre that toxic.  Lest we forget, James Jones was cut by the Chargers before we brought him back.  The Janis, Abby thing, thats somewhat valid at least.  that makes sense.  

[HeresAGuy]

7 minutes ago, TheOnlyThing said:

As one who advocated cutting both Cobb & Nelson last offseason, and perhaps bringing just one of them back on a much reduced contract, the only reason I can see that Cobb was kept over Nelson is age.

And Cobb and Nelson are definitely both at similar trajectories in their careers, at least as far as the Packers are concerned.

Nelson's career in GB done and Cobb's will be done in about two months when he will join Jordy as an ex-Packer.

 

That is very much true Im afraid.  

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

8 minutes ago, HeresAGuy said:

Larry Fitzgerald would look awful in oakland.  Megatron would have looked awful in Oakland.  Literally every WR that was, is, and ever will be would look awful in Oakland right now.  Using anyone in Oakland as a barometer for anything other "how to murder a franchise" is just lazy.  Im not gonna sit here and say i watched tape of Nelson, but being on the west coast ive been force fed more Raiders games than Id watch voluntarily.  That team is the definition of trash.  I could not fault anyone for playing the game at half speed with half motivation on that team, and I think thats part of the issue.  When you enter a team thats a black hole, that has nothing going for it, you lose motivation.  Tom Brady and Peyton Manning would lose motivation with the Raiders.  The Raiders would have neutered Ray Lewis even, theyre that toxic.  Lest we forget, James Jones was cut by the Chargers before we brought him back.  The Janis, Abby thing, thats somewhat valid at least.  that makes sense.  

There is a certain amount of truth in this.  There are historical examples.

There were many who thought Charles Woodson was worn out after his initial stay in Oakland.

There were some who thought Randy Moss had lost his stuff after his stay in Oakland.

Oakland has been a place where careers goto die.  Some, however, can recover if the disease is treated early enough.

[HeresAGuy]

^^^^ facts

[vegas492]

59 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

Anyone remember how many targets Jared Cook got in the first half of the season?  In Cook's first 7 games with the Packers, he averaged 4.3 targets per game which was highly inflated by his game against Washington when he got 11 attempts.  In his final 6 games with Green Bay, he averaged 8.8 targets per game.    What's more likely, Aaron finally trusted Jared Cook to throw to him or that Jared Cook's talent level suddenly jumped?  It's clearly the former.

As for Jordy Nelson, he's clearly a shell of his former self.  Let me ask you this, are we any less of with MVS than we would have been with Jordy Nelson?  I mean, go compare MVS this year to Jordy Nelson last year.

MVS: 23 receptions, 402 receiving yards, 2 TD receptions, 39 targets (9 games)
Jordy: 53 receptions, 482 receiving yards, 6 TD receptions, 88 targets (15 games)
MVS: 38 receptions, 670 receiving yards, 3 TD receptions, 65 targets (15 game extrapolation)

MVS is on pace to be a significantly more productive receiver than Jordy Nelson was last year.  Let that soak in.  Hell, Geronimo Allison has been more productive than Jordy Nelson this year.

Jordy: 25 receptions, 353 receiving yards, 3 TD receptions, 39 targets (9 games)
Geronimo: 20 receptions, 303 receiving yards, 2 TD receptions, 30 targets (5 games)
MVS: 23 receptions, 402 receiving yards, 2 TD receptions, 39 targets (9 games)
Geronimo: 36 receptions, 545 receiving yards, 4 TD receptions, 54 targets (9 game extrapolation)

Hell, I could probably make an argument that ESB on a per target basis is more productive than Jordy Nelson.

Jordy: 25 receptions, 353 receiving yards, 3 TD receptions, 39 targets (9 games)
ESB: 23 receptions, 380 receiving yards, 9 TD receptions, 39 targets (9 games extrapolation w/ Jordy targets)

At best, he's a marginal upgrade over ESB right now.  But long-term, he's not part of our plan.  I'd rather give those snaps to ESB and figure out what we have in him than go back and get Jordy Nelson.  And I love Jordy Nelson and everything he's done for this franchise.  But he's done.  Jordy Nelson is a shell of his self.  He might be a marginal upgrade this year, but looking the bigger picture I'd rather give those snaps to ESB than Nelson.

What's more likely, Aaron finally trusted Jared Cook to throw to him or that Jared Cook's talent level suddenly jumped?---Wasn't he injured and got healthy?  That was a pretty big thing that year.  Cook's health.

As for Jordy Nelson, he's clearly a shell of his former self.  Let me ask you this, are we any less of with MVS than we would have been with Jordy Nelson?  I mean, go compare MVS this year to Jordy Nelson last year.---I never argued to take MVS out of the game.  ESB is the one who sits.  I know you are replying to a lot of things today and seem a little jittery, but MVS for Nelson was not brought up...at all.

 Hell, Geronimo Allison has been more productive than Jordy Nelson this year.--GMO is injured and there's no way that he would outproduce Nelson if they were both on the team this year.  GMO is not helping you get over the divisional hump this year due to injury.  Jordy, if released from Oakland, could offer reinforcements.

Hell, I could probably make an argument that ESB on a per target basis is more productive than Jordy Nelson.--You could argue it, but you'd be incorrect.  Jordy would be a red zone threat and a third down threat.  Jordy with Rodgers is a threat.  Jordy with Carr is not a threat.  Heck, no one is in Oakland.  Did I really see ESB with 9 TD's listed above?  Wow.

He might be a marginal upgrade this year, but looking the bigger picture I'd rather give those snaps to ESB than Nelson.--If the team is throwing in the towel, then yes, stay with the young kid, ESB and take your lumps this year and go get 'em next year.  I'm of the opinion, that despite not looking the sharpest, GB has a chance to beat Seattle, Minny and Chicago, then be in the driver's seat for the division.  I'm not throwing in the towel, and if Jordy is available, while Cobb and GMO are hurt, there is literally no reason not to go get him.

[vegas492]

46 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

Look at the guys behind James Jones that year.  You had Jared Abbrederis and Jeff Janis.  This year, we have ESB and J'Mon Moore.  Those two are more talent than Abby and Janis.

Nobody ever had more talent than Janis.  Don't try to tell me otherwise! 

[Toddfather]

Jordy retires... Spends the rest of this season to get healthy. un-retires and signs vet min to be more of a back up role. Then he gives Aaron the season he owes him, and they both get that second ring together.  ... I mean... It could happen.