GSUeagles14 Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 On 2/26/2018 at 11:35 AM, Shanedorf said: Per OTC, there are two main strategies to build a Champion in today's NFL - one with a Top QB and one without. The vikes chose the plan without a Top QB and have gone about building a top defense and running game to be supported by an inexpensive QB. Teddy was that cheap QB. IF they now opt to go after Cousins, they'll be switching team-building strategies mid-stream. And all of the resources they put into building that defense will be diminished by the cash they pay Cousins. They won't be able to keep all of the defensive pieces. The NFL is a tough business We saw this happen in Seattle where they built a top defense and went to 2 SBs with cheap-Wilson and a defensive-minded HC. Once Wilson got paid, the Seahawks didn't have the cap or the draft resources to replenish their defense and it is in decline due to age, injury and FA defections. That will likely be the vikes fate too IF they choose to pay a Top QB big money at this juncture. They probably need to keep going with the cheap QB strategy and keep pouring resources into the defense and running game. Truly between a rock and a hard place because they know their defense isn't yet good enough to win in January - they gave up 55 points in 6 quarters of playoff foootball. What will they do ? Continue to bolster the defense or pay handsomely to bolster the QB position ? Tough decisions ahead. this isnt really accurate, they had 20 mil+ allocated to qbs in 2017. In addition, they have 50 million in free cap space for 2018, and 70 in 2019. Yes they have some defensive guys that need to get paid, however they have plenty of room to sign cousins and still resign their top guys. And theyve shown pretty good ability to draft and develop defensive players, i dont really see that going away as long as zimmer is there. NFL contracts are built to get out of every 2-3 years, sign the best qb you can and take your shot when you have once of the more talented rosters in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stl4life07 Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 If Minnesota go all in on Cousins their window is literally 2018. In 2019 they have Robison, Barr, Diggs, Kendricks, Hunter, and Floyd all FAs. They won’t be able to afford them if they give Cousins the contract he wants and thus they will lose a lot of key pieces on defense. Their team is well rounded where they don’t need Cousins. Keep Keenum or Bridgewater or even trade for Foles. Those will be cheaper options than Cousins. Plus Cousins isn’t going to carry a team if they do lose a lot of those key pieces in 2019. The Vikings will become the Redskins in 2019 and beyond with Cousins and that’s a team that could contend for the playoffs but that’s it. They wouldn’t take that step where they are at now and that’s Superbowl contenders once they start losing players they can’t afford to keep because they gave Cousins a big contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CriminalMind Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 6 hours ago, stl4life07 said: If Minnesota go all in on Cousins their window is literally 2018. In 2019 they have Robison, Barr, Diggs, Kendricks, Hunter, and Floyd all FAs. They won’t be able to afford them if they give Cousins the contract he wants and thus they will lose a lot of key pieces on defense. Their team is well rounded where they don’t need Cousins. Keep Keenum or Bridgewater or even trade for Foles. Those will be cheaper options than Cousins. Plus Cousins isn’t going to carry a team if they do lose a lot of those key pieces in 2019. The Vikings will become the Redskins in 2019 and beyond with Cousins and that’s a team that could contend for the playoffs but that’s it. They wouldn’t take that step where they are at now and that’s Superbowl contenders once they start losing players they can’t afford to keep because they gave Cousins a big contract. They can extend some of the Hunter\diggs\Kendrick\Barr now later in the off season while they are all on their rookie contact. I would extend Hunter & Kendricks now, as Hunter had a semi down year & Kendricks still gets no respect. Diggs & Barr are coming off a high season so I'll wait on those 2 guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tugboat Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 7 hours ago, sp6488 said: I feel like the QB costing other players argument gets way overblown. I would generally rather pay a top-10ish QB $20MM per year (more for an elite guy) than try my luck in the rookie or 5-10MM AAV area and get one or two extra big ticket FAs at other positions. Now, this gets way more complicated due to the way contracts are structured, etc. but that's the general gist of it. That's the thing though... I don't think anybody really has reservations about paying a Top-10ish QB $20M per year and building around them. But we're at the point where largely unproven or flash in the pan guys well outside that Top-10 are getting those sort of contracts, or more. Or even proven mediocre guys. It just adds value to getting wins out of those young bigtime upside QBs on their rookie deal. It's almost essential to that sort of strategy now, and really divides the league into 2 categories. 1)Have Elite QB and are paying them as such, but keep winning because their guy is good enough to elevate others beyond their payscale. 2)Don't have Elite QB and are either scrambling to build an elite Defense+Running Game/Gimmicky System, or are tanking hard to try to find their elite QB of the future in the draft. I think it's really shifting the goalposts on what a "franchise QB" is. Making it a lot harder to hang onto a "good, solid QB" that you can win with...because they're starting to command the sort of money that makes it impossible to consistently assemble an "elite team" around them in support. You need an Elite QB...or you're back to the drawing board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gopherwrestler Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 7 hours ago, stl4life07 said: If Minnesota go all in on Cousins their window is literally 2018. In 2019 they have Robison, Barr, Diggs, Kendricks, Hunter, and Floyd all FAs. Robison is most likely retiring. Floyd probably is never playing again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingsrule Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 46 minutes ago, gopherwrestler said: Robison is most likely retiring. Floyd probably is never playing again. Looking beyond this ooseason, the Vikes can look at cutting players like Murray, Rudolph and Remmers if more cap space is needed. Some of the older vets who could take paycuts to stick around like Smith, Griffen, Joseph, Reiff and Rudolph. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iamcanadian Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 It is going to be really difficult for a small market team to sign Cousins, they simply lack the financial resources to do it. However, having said that, Minny has one ace in the hole, a domed stadium which might attract him. Then again, in NY, he can make another 5 million doing ads, that is hard to compete with for any franchise!!! After all, in a free bidding contest, it could cost as much as 175 million guaranteed over 5 years to sign him and even if he settles for 150 million, can a team win a championship paying its QB that kind of money, considering, a lot of small market teams never spend to their cap limit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanedorf Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 From the Combine: Zimmer: Told GM Spielman that they've been successful because of the whole team, not just QBs. Doesn't want to see Vikings over-commit to one position and see other areas suffer. QED Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 7 minutes ago, Iamcanadian said: It is going to be really difficult for a small market team to sign Cousins, they simply lack the financial resources to do it. However, having said that, Minny has one ace in the hole, a domed stadium which might attract him. Then again, in NY, he can make another 5 million doing ads, that is hard to compete with for any franchise!!! After all, in a free bidding contest, it could cost as much as 175 million guaranteed over 5 years to sign him and even if he settles for 150 million, can a team win a championship paying its QB that kind of money, considering, a lot of small market teams never spend to their cap limit. He's not getting 175 million guaranteed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TENINCH Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 3 minutes ago, Shanedorf said: From the Combine: Zimmer: Told GM Spielman that they've been successful because of the whole team, not just QBs. Doesn't want to see Vikings over-commit to one position and see other areas suffer. QED I think the Vikings could give Cousins a low ball number and if he accepts...great. If he doesn't oh well. It's not Aaron Rodgers level QB they are going after. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gopherwrestler Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 14 minutes ago, Shanedorf said: From the Combine: Zimmer: Told GM Spielman that they've been successful because of the whole team, not just QBs. Doesn't want to see Vikings over-commit to one position and see other areas suffer. QED Take whatever that man says with a grain of salt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenchie Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 20 hours ago, Duff Man said: 1) Did I say he didn't have weapons? No, I said this year's cast was better. This isn't really debateable (Mike Wallace? LMFAOOOOO) You were actually whining about why Teddy didn't get excused for his lack of supporting cast... I then explained why he didn't deserve it.. and I think it's certainly debatable who's cast was better. Bridgewater wasn't carrying a team full of idiots, that roster was just as good as Keenum's... And what's so hilarious about Mike Wallace? The year before he went to Minn, he had 800+ yds, and 10 TDs. With Bridgewater as his QB, he only managed 475 yds and 2 TDs. In fact, his year in Minnesota was the least productive season of his career... Coincidence? or incompetent QB play? 'LMFAOOOOO' 20 hours ago, Duff Man said: 2). That video at least somewhat validates the reports from camp that he had improved his deep ball. Are you still yapping about that preseason game? I give you credit; you sound 'at least somewhat' confident... Seriously though, stop, I'm embarrassed for you... 20 hours ago, Duff Man said: 3). Did you see Teddy throw any bonehead INTs in that game? Case singe handedly let the Saints back in the game. Then he throws a pick-6 in the eagles game that completely changed the momentum. Lol @ you trying to use playoff success in Case's favor. He was awful in the playoffs this year. I didn't see Teddy throw anything in that game.... and I didn't bring up the playoffs, you did... Keenum also threw the game-winning TD pass against the Saints... Eagles had a top 3 defense this year. It's not like he got mangled by some crappy defense. 20 hours ago, Duff Man said: 14 TDs looks bad until you realize he was taking 7 step drops behind a terrible OL all year What is this '7 step drop' nonsense?... If they knew the o-line was that bad, why was he taking 7 step drops? Is the Coaching staff stupid? or is Bridgewater stupid? Then when you factor in how rarely he threw deep, please explain why he was taking 7 step drops... I think you're trying to hide Bridgewater's poor pocket awareness, which led to a lot of those sacks... Perhaps the line wasn't that bad after all? And here's another fun fact, every starter on that 2015 o-line, is still a starter in the league... 20 hours ago, Duff Man said: You're a moron if you think Teddy didn't have upside and was improving. Injury concerns are valid, though. What is his upside? Show me something tangible. You can't; all you have is some random preseason game where he managed to not suck against a bunch of 2nd and 3rd stringers... Give me a break.. You have nothing else, that's why you've resorted to name calling... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikesfan89 Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 On 2/28/2018 at 2:21 PM, frenchie said: in 2015, Diggs Thielen, and Rudolph, along with Mike Wallace were all on the team; problem was, they had nobody capable of getting them the ball. Also that year, AP rushed for 1500 yards and 11 TDs. I agree, the line wasn't great, but he had weapons, and to insinuate that he didn't, is a joke. Diggs was a rookie and Thielen was a special team player and blocker. Rudolph is good but if I remember right, he had some drops that year. All that Wallace could do was run fast which didn't help teddy much since his weekness was the deep ball Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikesfan89 Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 18 minutes ago, frenchie said: You were actually whining about why Teddy didn't get excused for his lack of supporting cast... I then explained why he didn't deserve it.. and I think it's certainly debatable who's cast was better. Bridgewater wasn't carrying a team full of idiots, that roster was just as good as Keenum's... And what's so hilarious about Mike Wallace? The year before he went to Minn, he had 800+ yds, and 10 TDs. With Bridgewater as his QB, he only managed 475 yds and 2 TDs. In fact, his year in Minnesota was the least productive season of his career... Coincidence? or incompetent QB play? 'LMFAOOOOO' Are you still yapping about that preseason game? I give you credit; you sound 'at least somewhat' confident... Seriously though, stop, I'm embarrassed for you... I didn't see Teddy throw anything in that game.... and I didn't bring up the playoffs, you did... Keenum also threw the game-winning TD pass against the Saints... Eagles had a top 3 defense this year. It's not like he got mangled by some crappy defense. What is this '7 step drop' nonsense?... If they knew the o-line was that bad, why was he taking 7 step drops? Is the Coaching staff stupid? or is Bridgewater stupid? Then when you factor in how rarely he threw deep, please explain why he was taking 7 step drops... I think you're trying to hide Bridgewater's poor pocket awareness, which led to a lot of those sacks... Perhaps the line wasn't that bad after all? And here's another fun fact, every starter on that 2015 o-line, is still a starter in the league... What is his upside? Show me something tangible. You can't; all you have is some random preseason game where he managed to not suck against a bunch of 2nd and 3rd stringers... Give me a break.. You have nothing else, that's why you've resorted to name calling... Nove turner quit half ways through last season because he couldn't adapt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikesfan89 Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 20 minutes ago, frenchie said: You were actually whining about why Teddy didn't get excused for his lack of supporting cast... I then explained why he didn't deserve it.. and I think it's certainly debatable who's cast was better. Bridgewater wasn't carrying a team full of idiots, that roster was just as good as Keenum's... And what's so hilarious about Mike Wallace? The year before he went to Minn, he had 800+ yds, and 10 TDs. With Bridgewater as his QB, he only managed 475 yds and 2 TDs. In fact, his year in Minnesota was the least productive season of his career... Coincidence? or incompetent QB play? 'LMFAOOOOO' Are you still yapping about that preseason game? I give you credit; you sound 'at least somewhat' confident... Seriously though, stop, I'm embarrassed for you... I didn't see Teddy throw anything in that game.... and I didn't bring up the playoffs, you did... Keenum also threw the game-winning TD pass against the Saints... Eagles had a top 3 defense this year. It's not like he got mangled by some crappy defense. What is this '7 step drop' nonsense?... If they knew the o-line was that bad, why was he taking 7 step drops? Is the Coaching staff stupid? or is Bridgewater stupid? Then when you factor in how rarely he threw deep, please explain why he was taking 7 step drops... I think you're trying to hide Bridgewater's poor pocket awareness, which led to a lot of those sacks... Perhaps the line wasn't that bad after all? And here's another fun fact, every starter on that 2015 o-line, is still a starter in the league... What is his upside? Show me something tangible. You can't; all you have is some random preseason game where he managed to not suck against a bunch of 2nd and 3rd stringers... Give me a break.. You have nothing else, that's why you've resorted to name calling... Have you looked at the offensive line starters from that year? Pretty sure Harris never played and Clemmings only starts because it's a curse to be a starter in front of him. Not sure what Fusco is doing these days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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