How Would You Punish the Titans?

[Mega Ron]

Make them take on Bill O'Brien. A fate worse than Covid.

[Joe_is_the_best]

1 hour ago, ET80 said:

This, right here. Any current business open had really strict protocols in place - you have to wear a mask, social distancing, etc.

If you're caught violating that protocol, you're reminded of that protocol. If you violate it AGAIN, it's not out of the question that you lose your job, and in a big enough industry, your company looking at regulatory fines:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-regulators-fine-pork-giant-smithfield-over-covid-19-outbreak-11599776324

Smithfield was fined by OHSA for creating an unsafe environment at their pork processing plant. They knew the regulations, they violated the regulations - people were fired, fines were paid.

Why should this be any different?

I don't think anyone is opposed to fining the team & the offending players. It's just that people are being reactionary & suggesting ridiculous punishments. Not EVERYONE, but plenty of people.

[Joe_is_the_best]

4 minutes ago, Mega Ron said:

Make them take on Bill O'Brien. A fate worse than Covid.

Might as well give up draft picks instead. BOB would just trade all the picks for players on COVID reserve.

[blizofoz45]

This is tough because of the general overreaction to covid.  The odds of any of these men experiencing anything worse than flu symptoms are astronomical.  Check with the CDC before you post a reply that states anything otherwise.

On the other hand, I've done nothing but 1)Go to work, 2)Buy groceries and 3)Buy gas since this all started.  Literally nothing else.  If I can be compliant on my budget, NFL players and personnel should too and they have no excuse for engaging in risky behavior.

However this also is a league that annually tolerates players who get caught driving drunk, illegal drug use, theft, beating women and other forms of assault so this lack of self-discipline shouldn't come as a shock to anybody.

[diamondbull424]

1 hour ago, Joe_is_the_best said:

So we agree. 

Yes, we do. On that particular verbiage.

1 hour ago, Joe_is_the_best said:

Normally if someone breaks protocol, they're warned right? So, in this case fines & suspensions are in order. No one disagrees with that. But draft picks? That's just going overboard. 

This stream of thinking assumes the level of the threat to be of low viability. In the real world, when things are deemed high priority threats, warnings are provided ahead of time. For instance if this were say... “you’re not allowed to fly your drone in the city park because of regulations” I get a warning and be done with it. However, if I were flying the same drone over the base in Roswell, NM... do you actually expect me to simply get a warning and be done with it?

The NFL season was on the brink from the beginning. COVID-19 is a known and huge existential threat. I won’t debate the mortality rates or any of that because its not relevant to the point. Governments around the globe have defined it as a huge threat, thats all I will say. The NFL has equally defined it as such a threat. Teams were well warned ahead of time, “follow these protocols so that we have the best shot at completing an NFL season.”

Regardless of if better plans might’ve presented better opportunities to completion are irrelevant. The NFL is a huge organization and consulted with plenty of professionals and their recommendations, along with what was likely most profitable, became the backbone for the NFL’s restart plan. The Titans thoroughly set out to defy that plan and then lied about it. Warnings need not to be provided for swift and strong response, it wouldn’t be in the real world, considering the nature of the violation.

1 hour ago, Joe_is_the_best said:

Sure, but it's the level of overreaction. People are suggesting the worst punishments an NFL team has ever gotten. That's a massive overreaction. 

And its not an overreaction. The Patriots cheating, how much money did the NFL stand to lose from such a violation? How about the bounty gate situation? What was the worst thing that could happen in each scenario? These are rhetorical, I’ll answer.

Cheating? Player safety isn’t directly involved in this violation. In terms of monetary value? Hard to quantify how that could be represented, but let’s say a few fans lose respect and leave or a few endorsement deals, we might be talking value in the millions?

Bountygate? Player safety issue was directly involved. If star players had been injured it had the potential to cost the NFL a few hundreds of millions in advertisements if big matchups had been impacted by such practices over a long period of time. Or if a star player would have had their career ended by an injury from such practices.

Covidgate? Player safety was directly involved. What if a Titans’ player comes away with scarred lungs that never recover and ends his career or he develops a medical defect because of the violations his teammates/coaches allowed to take place? The contagion has a spread thats very difficult to contain. People have died from the virus. What if a player on the Titans loses an infant kid because of something his teammates and coaches were complicit in? What if the Steelers had been exposed or the Bills had been exposed in large quantities? 

These protocols were in place to protect against such a threat while allowing the league to maximize profits as best they could. The NFL season while already difficult to navigate has now been stressed to the brink due to the Titans violations. They’ve already impacted more than three teams and upset the already thin level of competitive balance of this season. The season might’ve ended anyway (I thought it would), but their actions had/have the potential to cost the NFL billions of dollars if forced to close down even earlier because of the amount of stress they’ve added to the system. So we’re talking the most impact financially and to player safety that we’ve ever seen.

So please explain to me how this is somehow a lesser violation than the ones above? This isn’t some drone in the park, this is a drone over Roswell. Thus they deserve Thor’s hammer. Be it in huge fines, lost draft picks, personnel suspensions, etc. I don’t have access to the investigation, but if it plays out how it sounds, then yes a record level of discipline should result from covidgate... and this is for ALL teams engaging in such violations, not just the Titans.

[onejayhawk]

3 hours ago, Daniel said:

I mean, I agree generally. The reason I thought a forfeit was the only logical solution was to not spread the disease further, and not to risk tons of injuries to both the Bills and Titans.

As for overreacting/underreacting, there are absolutely some ridiculous takes. Multiple draft pick losses is ridiculous on its face when actual and repeated cheating is punished less.

Heavy fines, loss of a draft pick. Forfeit if there’s a risk of spreading the disease to the Bills. If they aren’t concerned enough about spreading the disease to cancel a game, then they shouldn’t be concerned about the Titans breaking protocols.

This is almost as much the NFL’s fault as it is the Titans’.

A forfeit is a blunt instrument. If you really want to hit the franchise where it hurts, use the draft. Just dropping them to the end of a round will get a message across. If it's round #1, even more so.

You have a point that the whole league was complicit. But, how do you punish teams for not making a complaint. The league itself has legal hurdles which are non trivial without a formal complaint.

J

[Daniel]

13 minutes ago, onejayhawk said:

A forfeit is a blunt instrument. If you really want to hit the franchise where it hurts, use the draft. Just dropping them to the end of a round will get a message across. If it's round #1, even more so.

You have a point that the whole league was complicit. But, how do you punish teams for not making a complaint. The league itself has legal hurdles which are non trivial without a formal complaint.

J

Oh the Titans absolutely should lose a draft pick. The league having stupid *** policies that encourage this kind of behavior doesn’t mean they should get away with multiple blatant violations. I just think a first is steep. Fine the players, fine the team, take a second.

But if playing will spread the disease further, then it’s mindnumbingly stupid to force the game to happen and then turn around and dole out any kind of punishment.

[Superman(DH23)]

Ok, here's what I would do:

1.  2 game suspension for any player who was at the workouts.  That's a fine of 1/8 their annual income.  

2.  Any coach who knew, encouraged, or participated is suspended for the remainder of the year.  Players get a second chance, leadership does not.  

3.  Titans lose 1st round pick

4.  Titans are fined the equivalent of their share of 2 weeks of the shared revenue. 

5.  No forfeits, yet. if they have 11 guys healthy and covid-free they play the game.  If they are unable to field a team on Tues, they  forfeit Bills and Steelers games, and continue to lose the weekly share of TV revenue until they can.  But nobody else's schedule is.getting screwed bc of their incompetence.

[INbengalfan]

I hope I'm not being redundant, but I didn't read all responses on the previous 12 pages.

 

Simply make them play short-handed with healthy players.  Then dock a draft pick or two next offseason

[Daniel]

New positive test today.

Gotta forfeit the game.

[.Buzz]

[TheKillerNacho]

18 hours ago, blizofoz45 said:

This is tough because of the general overreaction to covid.  The odds of any of these men experiencing anything worse than flu symptoms are astronomical.  Check with the CDC before you post a reply that states anything otherwise.

On the other hand, I've done nothing but 1)Go to work, 2)Buy groceries and 3)Buy gas since this all started.  Literally nothing else.  If I can be compliant on my budget, NFL players and personnel should too and they have no excuse for engaging in risky behavior.

However this also is a league that annually tolerates players who get caught driving drunk, illegal drug use, theft, beating women and other forms of assault so this lack of self-discipline shouldn't come as a shock to anybody.

You do realize that

A) teams have way more personnel than just their players,

And

B) players and the rest of the personnel have families, including people who could be high risk

, Right? Regardless of the direct risk to the individual player (which isn't zero, either), the NFL cannot afford to be the complicit with spreading a highly infectious disease that can very easily be fatal to people connected with those teams (there's quite a few coaches in this league that would be considered high risk, too).

 

Either way, if you want to discuss the disease itself, there's a thread in TAST for that. Discussion in this thread should be about possible penalties for violating rules that are in place, despite how you personally feel about them.

[Nick_gb]

This one is hard for me. On one hand, I sympathize with a competitive team being forced to play a game with very little if any practice at all. I understand the competitiveness in them wanting to be prepared for the game. However, there comes a point that competitiveness should not outweigh the safety of fellow players families or coaching staff and for that, the punishment needs to be harsh. 

1. Titans ownership fined $2.5 Million - This would be the largest fine passed down to an NFL Franchise in NFL History. 

2. 500k Fine for Mike Vrabel 

3. Any assistant coach found to be in cahoots to be fined 25-75k (dependent on salary)

4. Positive Test that results in game not being played = Forfeit of game. 

5. 1-2 Game Suspension (unpaid) for any players at the practice

6. Forfeit of 2nd and 3rd round picks. (They keep their 1st) 

 

Edited October 13, 2020 by Nick_gb

[Hunter2_1]

So...has there been any punishment yet?

[MikeT14]

2 minutes ago, Hunter2_1 said:

So...has there been any punishment yet?

Sounds like they might ***** foot around and not do anything after huffing and puffing.