2018 Draftable QB Discussion

[MWil23]

3 minutes ago, TheeRealDeal said:

Jared Goff is nothing like Josh Rosen and Jared Goff actually crushed it in the same statistical study I am using. Goff and Rosen were polar opposites. Goff was great in the red zone and didn't make 2nd half mistakes to doom his team. He performed well when trailing by less than 7 points. Jared Goff was the anti Josh Rosen. Wins and Losses are raw stats. Sure Rosen and Goff had similar career in that sense but the difference is pretty obvious Goff was not a big factor in those loses while Rosen has been. If anything Goff carried a California team to more wins than they should have while Josh Rosen has led a UCLA team to the exact number of wins they were capable.

Good to have you back KamTrus/ShakeNBake/G-Race! You've been missed!

[Bonanza23]

1 hour ago, MSURacerDT55 said:

We all need to take a second to realize how much of a luxury it is to even have a guy like Darnold/Rosen to talk about at the top who your preference is. Both are two top caliber guys and we have the #1 pick

Dang straight!  I wholeheartedly believe we have finally lucked into a draft that has 2 bonafide franchise guys. Possibly a third. Since 1999 it’s been a rare opportunity for us strangely enough with how bad we’ve sucked. Just take one of them, please Dorsey?  Please? I’m also fortunate finally that I’d be ok taking either Darnold or Rosen. I see potential greatness in either. Mayfield to a lesser extent but it won’t be manziel/weeden hate. 

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

20 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

Good to have you back KamTrus/ShakeNBake/G-Race! You've been missed!

Lol let it go man, he’s gone. ? 

[MWil23]

1 minute ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Lol let it go man, he’s gone. ? 

[TheeRealDeal]

6 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Lol let it go man, he’s gone. ? 

Seriously I thought we were having a good debate. I don't remember insulting MWil23 but I'm pretty sure that Kam comment was an insult to me. I don't know the other posters but I remember reading Kam's opinions and that guy had some seriously learning to do when it came to football. I would like to think I am more football savvy than him. 

[FGK]

Let's cut the speculation about whether new posters are actually old posters. I've never gotten the obsession with that...

 

 

In other news, this is a really solid quote:

 

[TheeRealDeal]

3 minutes ago, freakygeniuskid said:

Let's cut the speculation about whether new posters are actually old posters. I've never gotten the obsession with that...

 

 

In other news, this is a really solid quote:

 

True story. Yours and Baker's

[Reginaldm9]

5 minutes ago, freakygeniuskid said:

Let's cut the speculation about whether new posters are actually old posters. I've never gotten the obsession with that...

 

 

In other news, this is a really solid quote:

 

That's a really savvy quote. Baker Mayfield out here trying to mess around and go no.1

[MSURacerDT55]

1 hour ago, JoshBooty said:

I think we all can see paths where Rosen/Darnold could become top 10 QB's in the league in several years. Forum seems split on where Mayfield falls, and I get that.  Hopefully, if we don't Cousins our way into a QB, this is as far as our list needs to go.  But if it kept going, I just don't understand how people could tout the upside without actual college accuracy of Allen and not bring up the incredible upside offered by Lamar Jackson.  Both have a smaller likelihood of realizing that upside than the other QB's, but as an OC, looking at the annual improvement of Lamar, his better college production, the way I could craft an offense to use him, and level of competition, I'd have Lamar over Josh Allen (hoping we don't have to rely on either to be my starting QB anytime soon).

I just think its a good year for QBs, look at it, any other year Josh Allen would be QB 1 with his upside (Thank god we aren't forced to take him), any other year Lamar Jackson would be QB 1, and Baker Mayfield making a heluva case for QB 1. 

[MWil23]

7 minutes ago, freakygeniuskid said:

Let's cut the speculation about whether new posters are actually old posters. I've never gotten the obsession with that...

 

 

In other news, this is a really solid quote:

 

His height doesn't bother me as much as most. Moving his eyes down and looking to run when he gets pressured instead of throwing strong from the pocket, games like Iowa State and Georgia this year is a major concern for me though.

[JoshBooty]

4 minutes ago, MSURacerDT55 said:

I just think its a good year for QBs, look at it, any other year Josh Allen would be QB 1 with his upside (Thank god we aren't forced to take him), any other year Lamar Jackson would be QB 1, and Baker Mayfield making a heluva case for QB 1. 

I think it's on par with recent QB classes at the top end (Goff/Wentz, Winston/Mariota, Luck/RG3), I just feel everyone's picking which QB flaws they can either deal with or think will improve over time:  Do you want Darnold with his fumbling and funky arm motion?  How about Rosen's deep accuracy issues and reputation as non-coachable?  Is Mayfield's height and general d-bagginess your cup of tea?  Josh Allen has terrible accuracy, think you can fix it?  Is Lamar Jackson joining the league after we all lost faith in smaller running QB's?  Who even knows that Mason Rudolph is?  All could be great QB's, we just see past examples (usually Browns QB's since we've had a lot of them) where those specific traits kept a QB from greatness.

[FGK]

Oh snap, we were onto something y'all.

Matt Waldman has picked up the Allen-Kizer comp.

Quote

While possible that Allen can mature and refine his game, his playing style has a lot of similarities to DeShone Kizer — except Kizer was a better prospect and the prospect of him being cast aside after a year is a foolish decision steeped in questionable motives involving organizational leadership that has lost its way and political in-fighting. Place Allen in a rudderless, fingerpointing environment where he must start immediately with immature and subpar surrounding talent at wide receiver and Allen’s on-field behavior when under stress could also indicate that his confidence will also crater.

 

[AkronsWitness]

8 minutes ago, freakygeniuskid said:

Oh snap, we were onto something y'all.

Matt Waldman has picked up the Allen-Kizer comp.

 

There was another scout on 92.3 I don't know if it's the same guy but they brought up the Kizer/Allen thing and he absolutely agreed with the comparison. A great note I took away way this:

He said Allen will dazzle in 1v1 practice situations but after watching him on 7v7 in the senior bowl, the more layers you start adding into the defense with recognizing coverages and people surrounding him on the pocket, the worse he looks.

He says all of his bad qualities come out with footwork, decision making and accuracy when it's outside of 1v1 drills. Meaning Allen is still very far away from being a year1 starter and he considers him a big project much like Lynch/Kizer.

He also said some coach/team will fall in love because of what he looks like in 1v1 drills and think they can teach him despite him looking increasingly bad the more factors you put in front of him.

No

Thank

You.

[Mind Character]

So...you guys do know when coaches say "see over the lineman," they don't literally mean see over them, right?

Tremendous answer by Baker, and it's sure to capture the adoration of draft Twitter, but the euphemism "see over the lineman" is reserved by some lazy analyst as reasons to denigrate a short QB they don't like, but ultimately serious coaches and evaluators use it as a comment about vision when the pocket is not clean and collapses inward, especially the ability to see routes developing down the field and make the appropriate throw when there is inside pressure/the Guard/Center are being pushed back into one's lap.

This ability while boosted by height of eye level has more to do with mental processing than physical stature.

The one thing no one seems to be able to answer about Baker is why does he drop his eyes and/or turtle up and panic so frequently when there is serious inside pressure.

The one thing with Darnold no one seems to question is why he out strides horizontally when pressure is coming on his right so much leading to overthrows and general inaccuracy.

With Rosen, it is why does he not identify clear and obvious free rushers and make the appropriate check at the line and act surprised by the rush when he supposedly has such high level understanding of the game.

All the QBs have serious questions about them, but their respective lovefests is causing people to hang on their words too much.

Someone...if there is evidence out there that Baker doesn't drop his eyes every time there is even the mere thought of inside pressure...please show me/link me the game/video?

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If anyone reads to this point (unlikely) and has been watching cutups of the QBs, what are your favorite games of theirs in 2017?

I've been finding that it's a cool exercise to compare the QBs at the height of their 2017 powers (best game in terms of Quarterbacking not necessarily stats) and also compare/contrast them at their worst.

In terms of best games of 2017

Josh Rosen vs USC

 

Baker Mayfield vs Iowa State

 

Darnold vs Colorado

 

[bruceb]

1 hour ago, Mind Character said:

In terms of best games of 2017

I read and watched.

Somehow I feel you skewed this in favor of Darnold, because his play hands down was the best.