Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[Shanedorf]

10 hours ago, squire12 said:

I don't think the question of the vaccine being safe is so much on the early process, but the long term questions.   Those long term questions are unknown and won't be known until enough time passes.

I'm going to push back a little on this one, I hope you don't mind.

We've been vaccinating people for 65 years and have built up an immense amount of data on long - term effects across the globe
They're quite limited and one reason why is because the vaccine is only in your body for a very short period of time. On the order of a few days

Even this vaccine -  which has new components to it -  has been studied for 5 + years in animals and humans before it got to this stage of development.
The beauty of mRNA vaccines is that they have the potential to actually be safer than traditional vaccines, because the traditional ones used either dead or inactivated pathogens - and the possibility existed that some non-dead ones slip through. The mRNA vaccines don't use a pathogen at all and may end up being the way all vaccines are made going forward. This streamlines development timelines significantly. ( which the contrarians call a " super rush job !" )

Pfizer/Moderna wouldn't have gotten the green light to start the pivotal human trials without fully understanding the potential for long term effects and they already have 5 + years of data on these specific ones and more than 6 months has elapsed since the initial safety studies. So when people say "the long term effects are unknown" , that's really not the case here and I was hoping to shine a little light on that reality

Once injected, the vaccine is basically telling your body:

"I am an invader, here I am, come and get me !"  Your body mounts both an immediate and a long term response in the form of memory cells. But the actual molecules of the vaccine are cleared from your system right immediately -  so their ability to incite long terms affects are extremely limited.

The effects from the needle stick are short- lived and the immune stimulation activity is over within about 3-4 weeks. The trials that dosed thousands and thousands of humans added an extra 45 day safety period beyond the initial 8 week safety zone to make sure there were no deleterious effects. So they went out 2X the normal amount of time while in these trials -  and those patients are still being monitored 6 months later. All of the participants have access to a hotline to report anything unusual and Pfizer and Moderna are legally bound to collect, assess and address any issues that come up with the FDA.

We also have to remember that the trials couldn't even begin until an independent ethics committee signed off on the trial design, conduct and results.
Pfizer can't ram anything through, the ethics committee is responsible for being patient advocates and they won't approve the study to start without a good understanding of any potential for long term effects. The members of the ethics committee put their names, their livelihood and their future on the line when they say OK. Same at FDA, it isn't some faceless org that gives the vaccine the go-ahead. Names are named

Every person reading this post has been vaccinated multiple times in their lives, some at birth and others as we advance through life -  and 99% of us have had no issues beyond a sore arm on the day you got stuck. I totally understand that people want to be cautious, its human nature. But additional caution was built into these trials from the very beginning and people adding their own layer of caution is redundant and of little/no value from a scientific POV. 

Everybody involved knows how high the stakes are and that any problems will be magnified x 1 billion in the news media.
They are not taking any chances here, quite the opposite

The US FDA isn't infallible, but they are the Gold Standard and the very best we have on this planet. There are literally hundreds of checks and balances in place to insure a safe and effective vaccine before it gets approved...and that includes an in-depth assessment of the potential for long term issues. 

[Xenos]

6 minutes ago, Shanedorf said:

I'm going to push back a little on this one, I hope you don't mind.

We've been vaccinating people for 65 years and have built up an immense amount of data on long - term effects across the globe
They're quite limited and one reason why is because the vaccine is only in your body for a very short period of time. On the order of a few days

Even this vaccine -  which has new components to it -  has been studied for 5 + years in animals and humans before it got to this stage of development.
The beauty of mRNA vaccines is that they have the potential to actually be safer than traditional vaccines, because the traditional ones used either dead or inactivated pathogens - and the possibility existed that some non-dead ones slip through. The mRNA vaccines don't use a pathogen at all and may end up being the way all vaccines are made going forward. This streamlines development timelines significantly. ( which the contrarians call a " super rush job !" )

Pfizer/Moderna wouldn't have gotten the green light to start the pivotal human trials without fully understanding the potential for long term effects and they already have 5 + years of data on these specific ones and more than 6 months has elapsed since the initial safety studies. So when people say "the long term effects are unknown" , that's really not the case here and I was hoping to shine a little light on that reality

Once injected, the vaccine is basically telling your body:

"I am an invader, here I am, come and get me !"  Your body mounts both an immediate and a long term response in the form of memory cells. But the actual molecules of the vaccine are cleared from your system right immediately -  so their ability to incite long terms affects are extremely limited.

The effects from the needle stick are short- lived and the immune stimulation activity is over within about 3-4 weeks. The trials that dosed thousands and thousands of humans added an extra 45 day safety period beyond the initial 8 week safety zone to make sure there were no deleterious effects. So they went out 2X the normal amount of time while in these trials -  and those patients are still being monitored 6 months later. All of the participants have access to a hotline to report anything unusual and Pfizer and Moderna are legally bound to collect, assess and address any issues that come up with the FDA.

We also have to remember that the trials couldn't even begin until an independent ethics committee signed off on the trial design, conduct and results.
Pfizer can't ram anything through, the ethics committee is responsible for being patient advocates and they won't approve the study to start without a good understanding of any potential for long term effects. The members of the ethics committee put their names, their livelihood and their future on the line when they say OK. Same at FDA, it isn't some faceless org that gives the vaccine the go-ahead. Names are named

Every person reading this post has been vaccinated multiple times in their lives, some at birth and others as we advance through life -  and 99% of us have had no issues beyond a sore arm on the day you got stuck. I totally understand that people want to be cautious, its human nature. But additional caution was built into these trials from the very beginning and people adding their own layer of caution is redundant and of little/no value from a scientific POV. 

Everybody involved knows how high the stakes are and that any problems will be magnified x 1 billion in the news media.
They are not taking any chances here, quite the opposite

The US FDA isn't infallible, but they are the Gold Standard and the very best we have on this planet. There are literally hundreds of checks and balances in place to insure a safe and effective vaccine before it gets approved...and that includes an in-depth assessment of the potential for long term issues. 

[Deadpulse]

12 minutes ago, Shanedorf said:

I'm going to push back a little on this one, I hope you don't mind.

We've been vaccinating people for 65 years and have built up an immense amount of data on long - term effects across the globe
They're quite limited and one reason why is because the vaccine is only in your body for a very short period of time. On the order of a few days

Even this vaccine -  which has new components to it -  has been studied for 5 + years in animals and humans before it got to this stage of development.
The beauty of mRNA vaccines is that they have the potential to actually be safer than traditional vaccines, because the traditional ones used either dead or inactivated pathogens - and the possibility existed that some non-dead ones slip through. The mRNA vaccines don't use a pathogen at all and may end up being the way all vaccines are made going forward. This streamlines development timelines significantly. ( which the contrarians call a " super rush job !" )

Pfizer/Moderna wouldn't have gotten the green light to start the pivotal human trials without fully understanding the potential for long term effects and they already have 5 + years of data on these specific ones and more than 6 months has elapsed since the initial safety studies. So when people say "the long term effects are unknown" , that's really not the case here and I was hoping to shine a little light on that reality

Once injected, the vaccine is basically telling your body:

"I am an invader, here I am, come and get me !"  Your body mounts both an immediate and a long term response in the form of memory cells. But the actual molecules of the vaccine are cleared from your system right immediately -  so their ability to incite long terms affects are extremely limited.

The effects from the needle stick are short- lived and the immune stimulation activity is over within about 3-4 weeks. The trials that dosed thousands and thousands of humans added an extra 45 day safety period beyond the initial 8 week safety zone to make sure there were no deleterious effects. So they went out 2X the normal amount of time while in these trials -  and those patients are still being monitored 6 months later. All of the participants have access to a hotline to report anything unusual and Pfizer and Moderna are legally bound to collect, assess and address any issues that come up with the FDA.

We also have to remember that the trials couldn't even begin until an independent ethics committee signed off on the trial design, conduct and results.
Pfizer can't ram anything through, the ethics committee is responsible for being patient advocates and they won't approve the study to start without a good understanding of any potential for long term effects. The members of the ethics committee put their names, their livelihood and their future on the line when they say OK. Same at FDA, it isn't some faceless org that gives the vaccine the go-ahead. Names are named

Every person reading this post has been vaccinated multiple times in their lives, some at birth and others as we advance through life -  and 99% of us have had no issues beyond a sore arm on the day you got stuck. I totally understand that people want to be cautious, its human nature. But additional caution was built into these trials from the very beginning and people adding their own layer of caution is redundant and of little/no value from a scientific POV. 

Everybody involved knows how high the stakes are and that any problems will be magnified x 1 billion in the news media.
They are not taking any chances here, quite the opposite

The US FDA isn't infallible, but they are the Gold Standard and the very best we have on this planet. There are literally hundreds of checks and balances in place to insure a safe and effective vaccine before it gets approved...and that includes an in-depth assessment of the potential for long term issues. 

To add to this. We have been studying coronvirus vaccine since the SARS outbreak a year ago. COVID-19 is just a different strain of coronavirus. SARS is also a coronavirus. This is why @Shanedorf keeps saying we have 5+ years study on the mRNA. 

[theJ]

Well if that post doesn't get a bunch of likes, no posts should.

[Blackstar12]

So is that 100 million shots in the first 100 days Biden talked about reasonable/realistic?

[Deadpulse]

12 minutes ago, Blackstar12 said:

So is that 100 million shots in the first 100 days Biden talked about reasonable/realistic?

Here is a good article that should lay it out for you

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/14/well/live/covid-vaccine-questions.html

It depends on how you take Biden's comment (I don't know the actual quote). 100 Million shots is technically 50 million people which we will definitely hit before 100 days. 

[mission27]

4 hours ago, jetsfan4life51 said:

What/who is MoL?

What the US really needs to do is start worrying about metabolic health and underlying conditions.

@TLO and myself, also known as the MoL:

MoL score is our proprietary measure of COVID spread in a given geographical location (country, state, etc.) also known simply as "MoLs."  This was a highly controversial topic on the forum from late March to June, when the MoL decided our time was better served chasing tail rather than trying to educate folks who, to your point Mr. Jets, are largely ignorant and obese.

[Blackstar12]

17 minutes ago, Deadpulse said:

Here is a good article that should lay it out for you

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/14/well/live/covid-vaccine-questions.html

It depends on how you take Biden's comment (I don't know the actual quote). 100 Million shots is technically 50 million people which we will definitely hit before 100 days. 

Thanks I haven’t taken a flu shot in years mainly because I only get sick maybe 2-3 times all year (knock on wood). I’ll probably take this vaccine and skip the flu shot this spring/summer.

[ET80]

2 hours ago, Shanedorf said:

I'm going to push back a little on this one, I hope you don't mind.

We've been vaccinating people for 65 years and have built up an immense amount of data on long - term effects across the globe
They're quite limited and one reason why is because the vaccine is only in your body for a very short period of time. On the order of a few days

Even this vaccine -  which has new components to it -  has been studied for 5 + years in animals and humans before it got to this stage of development.
The beauty of mRNA vaccines is that they have the potential to actually be safer than traditional vaccines, because the traditional ones used either dead or inactivated pathogens - and the possibility existed that some non-dead ones slip through. The mRNA vaccines don't use a pathogen at all and may end up being the way all vaccines are made going forward. This streamlines development timelines significantly. ( which the contrarians call a " super rush job !" )

Pfizer/Moderna wouldn't have gotten the green light to start the pivotal human trials without fully understanding the potential for long term effects and they already have 5 + years of data on these specific ones and more than 6 months has elapsed since the initial safety studies. So when people say "the long term effects are unknown" , that's really not the case here and I was hoping to shine a little light on that reality

Once injected, the vaccine is basically telling your body:

"I am an invader, here I am, come and get me !"  Your body mounts both an immediate and a long term response in the form of memory cells. But the actual molecules of the vaccine are cleared from your system right immediately -  so their ability to incite long terms affects are extremely limited.

The effects from the needle stick are short- lived and the immune stimulation activity is over within about 3-4 weeks. The trials that dosed thousands and thousands of humans added an extra 45 day safety period beyond the initial 8 week safety zone to make sure there were no deleterious effects. So they went out 2X the normal amount of time while in these trials -  and those patients are still being monitored 6 months later. All of the participants have access to a hotline to report anything unusual and Pfizer and Moderna are legally bound to collect, assess and address any issues that come up with the FDA.

We also have to remember that the trials couldn't even begin until an independent ethics committee signed off on the trial design, conduct and results.
Pfizer can't ram anything through, the ethics committee is responsible for being patient advocates and they won't approve the study to start without a good understanding of any potential for long term effects. The members of the ethics committee put their names, their livelihood and their future on the line when they say OK. Same at FDA, it isn't some faceless org that gives the vaccine the go-ahead. Names are named

Every person reading this post has been vaccinated multiple times in their lives, some at birth and others as we advance through life -  and 99% of us have had no issues beyond a sore arm on the day you got stuck. I totally understand that people want to be cautious, its human nature. But additional caution was built into these trials from the very beginning and people adding their own layer of caution is redundant and of little/no value from a scientific POV. 

Everybody involved knows how high the stakes are and that any problems will be magnified x 1 billion in the news media.
They are not taking any chances here, quite the opposite

The US FDA isn't infallible, but they are the Gold Standard and the very best we have on this planet. There are literally hundreds of checks and balances in place to insure a safe and effective vaccine before it gets approved...and that includes an in-depth assessment of the potential for long term issues. 

I wish I could pin this. Bravo...

[The Gnat]

 

[BobbyPhil1781]

16 minutes ago, ET80 said:

I wish I could pin this. Bravo...

Worst, MOD, ever

Edited December 15, 2020 by BobbyPhil1781

[BobbyPhil1781]

8 minutes ago, The Gnat said:

 

I've had such a hard time explaining this to people who, like me a few months ago, were unaware of this not being dead/weakened rona viruses. This is a perfect analogy and will be using it.

[incognito_man]

2 hours ago, Shanedorf said:

I'm going to push back a little on this one, I hope you don't mind.

saved.

I don't know what for, but I'm saving this.

[Malfatron]

35 minutes ago, The Gnat said:

 

[squire12]

3 hours ago, Shanedorf said:

I'm going to push back a little on this one, I hope you don't mind.

We've been vaccinating people for 65 years and have built up an immense amount of data on long - term effects across the globe
They're quite limited and one reason why is because the vaccine is only in your body for a very short period of time. On the order of a few days

Even this vaccine -  which has new components to it -  has been studied for 5 + years in animals and humans before it got to this stage of development.
The beauty of mRNA vaccines is that they have the potential to actually be safer than traditional vaccines, because the traditional ones used either dead or inactivated pathogens - and the possibility existed that some non-dead ones slip through. The mRNA vaccines don't use a pathogen at all and may end up being the way all vaccines are made going forward. This streamlines development timelines significantly. ( which the contrarians call a " super rush job !" )

Pfizer/Moderna wouldn't have gotten the green light to start the pivotal human trials without fully understanding the potential for long term effects and they already have 5 + years of data on these specific ones and more than 6 months has elapsed since the initial safety studies. So when people say "the long term effects are unknown" , that's really not the case here and I was hoping to shine a little light on that reality

Once injected, the vaccine is basically telling your body:

"I am an invader, here I am, come and get me !"  Your body mounts both an immediate and a long term response in the form of memory cells. But the actual molecules of the vaccine are cleared from your system right immediately -  so their ability to incite long terms affects are extremely limited.

The effects from the needle stick are short- lived and the immune stimulation activity is over within about 3-4 weeks. The trials that dosed thousands and thousands of humans added an extra 45 day safety period beyond the initial 8 week safety zone to make sure there were no deleterious effects. So they went out 2X the normal amount of time while in these trials -  and those patients are still being monitored 6 months later. All of the participants have access to a hotline to report anything unusual and Pfizer and Moderna are legally bound to collect, assess and address any issues that come up with the FDA.

We also have to remember that the trials couldn't even begin until an independent ethics committee signed off on the trial design, conduct and results.
Pfizer can't ram anything through, the ethics committee is responsible for being patient advocates and they won't approve the study to start without a good understanding of any potential for long term effects. The members of the ethics committee put their names, their livelihood and their future on the line when they say OK. Same at FDA, it isn't some faceless org that gives the vaccine the go-ahead. Names are named

Every person reading this post has been vaccinated multiple times in their lives, some at birth and others as we advance through life -  and 99% of us have had no issues beyond a sore arm on the day you got stuck. I totally understand that people want to be cautious, its human nature. But additional caution was built into these trials from the very beginning and people adding their own layer of caution is redundant and of little/no value from a scientific POV. 

Everybody involved knows how high the stakes are and that any problems will be magnified x 1 billion in the news media.
They are not taking any chances here, quite the opposite

The US FDA isn't infallible, but they are the Gold Standard and the very best we have on this planet. There are literally hundreds of checks and balances in place to insure a safe and effective vaccine before it gets approved...and that includes an in-depth assessment of the potential for long term issues. 

I agree completely on the science of it.  The questions are from those not understanding and related to the process (FTPOV) only being a few months old.