TENINCH Posted June 22, 2021 Share Posted June 22, 2021 1 minute ago, ET80 said: Nice, OMW. Kinky. Take pics! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dtait93 Posted June 22, 2021 Share Posted June 22, 2021 12 minutes ago, fretgod99 said: So there are some people who sometimes say mean things about people who are religious. That’s… life? Do you think people who sometimes say mean things about people who are LGBTQIA is just life, or do we live in (or at the very least moving towards) a cultural climate where that's deemed hate speech and should be a crime? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted June 22, 2021 Share Posted June 22, 2021 Great thread so far, nice to have such an active discussion. Hopefully we can keep this going. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1WngdAngel Posted June 22, 2021 Share Posted June 22, 2021 16 minutes ago, scar988 said: I'm not saying you're a bad person. But if someone is spouting hateful rhetoric around you, hitting them with a Samuel L Jackson STFU is something you should do to be a good person. Otherwise, you're just a neutral person. Now this I appreciate. I make no bones about the fact I abhor people as a collective group. They are easily startled and dangerous to anyone who doesn't agree with them. Individuals, however, are awesome and I would put anyone in there place that wanted to demean, insult, threaten, etc anyone else for who they were and I have. Imho, and I'll preface this by saying it will likely come across as brutish perhaps, problems start to arise when someone wants to come at you for saying you don't care when the continued message from anyone coming out or attempting to shine a brighter light on a social issue is that these things shouldn't matter and just be accepted. I am literally saying that person "x" being gay, black, muslim, etc doesn't matter to me because it is not who they are. Who are you as an individual? Or you a good person? Being a member of a protected minority group doesn't factor into if someone is a good person or not. That is what I am saying when I say I don't care, but that's me and I don't pretend to be the voice of anyone else. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted June 22, 2021 Share Posted June 22, 2021 8 minutes ago, scar988 said: When you spend your whole life getting crapped on by "Christians", it's hard to not see them as a religion of hate. Growing up being told, "You're going to hell" just because you're Jewish or LGBT or whatever isn't their flavor of Christianity is a form of hate. Hatred from Christian people has been a part of my life because I'm Jewish. So it's been hard for me to not see Christians, especially the ones who are throwing it in your face all the time, as a hateful group for me. There are bad apples in all religions. It should be pointed out that the #2 and #3 religions in the world (Islamic and Hindu) both have text that can be interpreted as anti-homosexuality (along with Judaism); but it seems as we are mostly western-cultured on this forum we are specifically targeting Christianity. Hatred from Christian people should be seen as a sin as it is considered one in Christianity. Its a very "Pot call the Kettle black" situation. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Hope- Posted June 22, 2021 Share Posted June 22, 2021 3 minutes ago, dtait93 said: Do you think people who sometimes say mean things about people who are LGBTQIA is just life, or do we live in (or at the very least moving towards) a cultural climate where that's deemed hate speech and should be a crime? LGBTQ people have been denied fundamental rights, kept out of positions of power, and persecuted. this denial is much larger than some mean words, but those words can and do help drive it home- i already posted stats about LGBTQ youth suicide and self-harm, etc etc. christian people in america have faced none of these things. so yeah, saying mean stuff is categorically different when applied to a group in power vs a marginalized group. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fretgod99 Posted June 22, 2021 Share Posted June 22, 2021 1 minute ago, dtait93 said: Do you think people who sometimes say mean things about people who are LGBTQIA is just life, or do we live in (or at the very least moving towards) a cultural climate where that's deemed hate speech and should be a crime? Saying mean things in and of itself isn’t criminal in any regard. Some people saying mean things about LGBTQIA people is also a part of life. But that’s not what is being discussed here. There is demonstrable evidence of actual legitimate persecution and quantifiable harmful negative treatment of LGBTQIA people, often (frequently) at the hands of religious people, resulting in a measurable impact of health and quality of life. There are also examples of actual Christian persecution in places of the world (as well as members of other religious identities). But “I get called out for my opinion on a message board!” is not an example of that. It’s not even in the same stratosphere. Not having your religious perspective catered to any longer is not persecution. It’s not even negative. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Hope- Posted June 22, 2021 Share Posted June 22, 2021 Just now, Matts4313 said: There are bad apples in all religions. It should be pointed out that the #2 and #3 religions in the world (Islamic and Hindu) both have text that can be interpreted as anti-homosexuality (along with Judaism); but it seems as we are mostly western-cultured on this forum we are specifically targeting Christianity. Hatred from Christian people should be seen as a sin as it is considered one in Christianity. Its a very "Pot call the Kettle black" situation. we live in the damn US, lol, what do you expect. my family is from india and pro-LGBTQ campaigners there *do* focus on regressive aspects of hinduism (although it's somewhat more complicated because the ways they were codified in indian law are tied to british colonialism). some of the most powerful forces aligned against LGBTQ rights in the US are christian-affiliated, so obviously those are going to take center stage. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1WngdAngel Posted June 22, 2021 Share Posted June 22, 2021 33 minutes ago, animaltested said: Thats exactly what our world needs, less empathy. I mean if someone saying "you should openly care about the wellbeing of your fellow citizen" is enough to "push you from the cause" you were never going to support the cause anyway. I will counter that with what exactly are you doing to further a cause? Because posting on a forum about how you support someone is the equivalent of doing nothing, however, if you have taken steps to support something then good on you. I don't have to, I have my own things to deal with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fretgod99 Posted June 22, 2021 Share Posted June 22, 2021 2 minutes ago, Matts4313 said: There are bad apples in all religions. It should be pointed out that the #2 and #3 religions in the world (Islamic and Hindu) both have text that can be interpreted as anti-homosexuality (along with Judaism); but it seems as we are mostly western-cultured on this forum we are specifically targeting Christianity. Hatred from Christian people should be seen as a sin as it is considered one in Christianity. Its a very "Pot call the Kettle black" situation. And the thing you called out (young people taking issue with religion) isn’t isolated to just Christianity. But people here only tend to focus on that because it’s the predominant religious perspective in this culture. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted June 22, 2021 Share Posted June 22, 2021 7 minutes ago, 1WngdAngel said: Now this I appreciate. I make no bones about the fact I abhor people as a collective group. They are easily startled and dangerous to anyone who doesn't agree with them. Individuals, however, are awesome and I would put anyone in there place that wanted to demean, insult, threaten, etc anyone else for who they were and I have. Imho, and I'll preface this by saying it will likely come across as brutish perhaps, problems start to arise when someone wants to come at you for saying you don't care when the continued message from anyone coming out or attempting to shine a brighter light on a social issue is that these things shouldn't matter and just be accepted. I am literally saying that person "x" being gay, black, muslim, etc doesn't matter to me because it is not who they are. Who are you as an individual? Or you a good person? Being a member of a protected minority group doesn't factor into if someone is a good person or not. That is what I am saying when I say I don't care, but that's me and I don't pretend to be the voice of anyone else. Boom, just hit you with your first like. I will forever be your first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fretgod99 Posted June 22, 2021 Share Posted June 22, 2021 Just now, 1WngdAngel said: I will counter that with what exactly are you doing to further a cause? Because posting on a forum about how you support someone is the equivalent of doing nothing, however, if you have taken steps to support something then good on you. I don't have to, I have my own things to deal with. Sometimes, as we’ve seen here, being a visible proponent of inclusion and equality can go a long way in making a difference in individual people’s lives. Even that might be a positive step to making someone else feel accepted, or showing another person that their historical mindset doesn’t have to be set in stone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramssuperbowl99 Posted June 22, 2021 Share Posted June 22, 2021 Just now, fretgod99 said: And the thing you called out (young people taking issue with religion) isn’t isolated to just Christianity. But people here only tend to focus on that because it’s the predominant religious perspective in this culture. Also, let's not pretend this is totally random. The Southern Baptist presidential election came down to Critical Race Theory. If that's what matters to American Baptists, fine ,but then that sect is just another arm of the political outrage machine. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spartacus Posted June 22, 2021 Share Posted June 22, 2021 3 minutes ago, -Hope- said: some of the most powerful forces aligned against LGBTQ rights in the US are christian Your being far too kind. Most would be the correct definition. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
animaltested Posted June 22, 2021 Share Posted June 22, 2021 2 minutes ago, 1WngdAngel said: I will counter that with what exactly are you doing to further a cause? Because posting on a forum about how you support someone is the equivalent of doing nothing, however, if you have taken steps to support something then good on you. I don't have to, I have my own things to deal with. Resorting to gatekeeping? Cool. I do the bare minimum; vocal support, and civic support (voting on city/ state referendums). Not sure what that has to do with encouraging empathy. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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