Random Bears Thoughts - Offseason Thread

[Epyon]

10 hours ago, Ty21 said:

I thought I was a pretty big guy until I went to the bears expo in ‘09. Israel Idonije dwarfed me. I’m 6’2, so not a giant but god he made me feel like a small child 

 

10 hours ago, AZBearsFan said:

I remember the first time I saw Akiem Hicks in Bourbonnais. He was literally bigger than my refrigerator. 

 I remember meeting Mike Singleterry back when I was a sophmore in high school footballl.... I knew then and there I'd never be in the NFL ..... The guy's neck was bigger than my quads. Absolutely massive human being, and he wasn't even a linemen.

[HuskieBear]

I know I'm getting WAY ahead of myself, but what do people expect our biggest needs to be going into next year. Assuming key rookies take the next step forward (6, 9, 70, 69, 16, and maybe 91). I was thinking about this specifically regarding braxton jones - if he takes a step forward this year, i think we're in a good place, but if he doesn't, i think LT becomes our number 1 need. otherwise DE has to be #1 on the list, and I would put C at #2 as of now, i think, maybe, depending on other things

I think our back 7 is pretty set, especially if bojack plays this year again like last year i could see an small extension keeping him here, but JJ is a FA after this year and when he is good is is GOOD but he still only has 1 int in 3 years. what number would we be comfortable at keeping him? does CB get moved up to #2 priority even though we've taken 2 in the past 2 2nd rounds?

WR is another one i would put at #3 or so - Moore is here for another 3 years but 10 and 11 are FAs and 12 might be nothing more than a gadget/end around/occasional deep threat. excited to see what 13 does this year, but he's still a 4th round rookie

What do the targets look like (i'm just trying to get something to think/talk about to fill the offseason void)

FA - one of Sweat/Young, maybe target oliver? big names i dont expect to leave their teams but would fit here (burns, bosa, williams, gary, ridley, winfield, pittman, diggs, uche)

1st - DE (dallas turner?)

1st - CB (kalen king?)

2nd - WR (malik nabers?)

3rd - C (idk)

[StLunatic88]

2 hours ago, HuskieBear said:

I was thinking about this specifically regarding braxton jones - if he takes a step forward this year, i think we're in a good place, but if he doesn't, i think LT becomes our number 1 need. otherwise DE has to be #1 on the list, and I would put C at #2 as of now, i think, maybe, depending on other things

I would have to see Braxton legitimately Regress for LT to be over DE going into next year. He may not be the Franchise LT, but unless he is worse than he was as a Rookie, we know we have a guy we can run out there as a professional level LT. Im not sure we have a full time one of those guys on the Roster at DE. (we definitely done have 2)

Ive said we will see Walker at DE more than most expect, but that doesnt mean he should be in that situation. And it would need to be a very unexpected jump by Gipson/Robinson to believe one of them is our top Edge Rusher going forward

[dll2000]

 

 

[Madmike90]

 

This is a pretty insane stat if it's true...Gipson being double teamed that much and still us finding zero success when it came to rushing the passer shows just how bad things have been.

Edited May 25, 2023 by Madmike90

[JibjeResearch]

3 hours ago, Madmike90 said:

 

This is a pretty insane stat if it's true...Gipson being double teamed that much and still us finding zero success when it came to rushing the passer shows just how bad things have been.

I knew Gipson is good, the data only proves that Gipson must have 1 full year at the DE before we can send him packing.  I think this is his year...

[dll2000]

You know what question I am sick of that keeps being posed to Flus, Poles and Fields?

"Do you (or does Justin) have enough talent around him now so that all the excuses are over?

You see the problem was Justin just didn't want it bad enough in 2022.   With more effort think what he could have done.

He should get a motivational poster.

 

[Sugashane]

23 hours ago, HuskieBear said:

I know I'm getting WAY ahead of myself, but what do people expect our biggest needs to be going into next year. Assuming key rookies take the next step forward (6, 9, 70, 69, 16, and maybe 91). I was thinking about this specifically regarding braxton jones - if he takes a step forward this year, i think we're in a good place, but if he doesn't, i think LT becomes our number 1 need. otherwise DE has to be #1 on the list, and I would put C at #2 as of now, i think, maybe, depending on other things

I am assuming Fields shows he can be a franchise QB this season. I feel like Mooney or Claypool gets an extension this year, and Kmet likely does as well.

 

1. DE - Bears got two young talented DTs, have two young guys in Gipson and Robinson but not sure if either can be productive yet. After QB and bookends to protect that QB the next most important priority of a team is to beat the hell out of the opposing QB.

2. C - I like Whitehair but his time is coming to a close. He is the floor player on the OL now IMO. He is a great "weak link" of your OL like Garza was. If he is the worst starter your OL is at least damn solid. If he is one of the best your OL sucks. I think the Bears also will find a better use of the cap space his $9 mil they save by cutting him next year.

3. CB - I am 100% rooting for Johnson to stay healthy but 3 years in he has never played every game and is playing in just under 80% of his games. If he doesn't buck that trend I think he gets looked at much like Amukamara (I think that was an apt comparison by @AZBearsFan) as he will be at least a solid #2. Solid in coverage but lack of turnovers and injury woes cause him to be more of a journeyman than he should be. That being said with a hometown discount I would keep him even with injury concerns and keep trying to develop his potential replacement.

4. S - I think Brisker is actually a better fit at FS but he is able to play either, and unless EJax takes a discount will Poles pay him $35 mil over 2 years? I am doubtful. If Poles didn't go out and pay an OT or EDGE that kind of money at a much more premier position then why would he do so for a much less important spot? Brisker's versatility actually hurts EJax here since they can find a deal for either a FS or SS to pair with Brisker, so the only way I can see EJax staying in 2024 is if he extends and takes a discounted rate for 2024.

5. LT - not a necessary need, but if Jones just looks pretty good but is still really struggling with powerful rushers then the Bears may have a hard time looking away from someone like Olu Fashanu if Fields looks to be the guy. That isn't to say Jones would be given up on, but with Whitehair having one foot out the door and Jenkins having concerns (be it by staff or injuries) he may be looked to kick inside while the Poles adds the best OL prospect he can. Jones is a solid athlete as an OT so moving him to C would allow a significant upside and athleticism to be added there, and there are OGs to assist if he gets put on a tank of a NT. And honestly, an OL with Fashanu/Wright as the bookends just seems too good to be true. 

23 hours ago, HuskieBear said:

I think our back 7 is pretty set, especially if bojack plays this year again like last year i could see an small extension keeping him here, but JJ is a FA after this year and when he is good is is GOOD but he still only has 1 int in 3 years. what number would we be comfortable at keeping him? does CB get moved up to #2 priority even though we've taken 2 in the past 2 2nd rounds?

Answered some above above, but if he plays only 11 games for example then he is at around 75% of the games being played, so I am throwing out about $10 mil per year with lower guarantees. Puts him well into the top 30 CBs, right at about 20 but not locking him into a big contract if injury woes worsen. Seems fair on both sides.

23 hours ago, HuskieBear said:

WR is another one i would put at #3 or so - Moore is here for another 3 years but 10 and 11 are FAs and 12 might be nothing more than a gadget/end around/occasional deep threat. excited to see what 13 does this year, but he's still a 4th round rookie

What do the targets look like (i'm just trying to get something to think/talk about to fill the offseason void)

I think it really will depend on who gets extended out of Claypool or Mooney. I think one does even if only a 1 year deal. If Claypool is kept then I think they probably allow for a smaller to average sized guy with speed. Someone like Quez Watkins comes to mind. He didn't do great in all drills but was a burner. If Mooney does they might sign someone who is just a bigger guy for depth, like Corey Davis. One or both might have a hell of a season though and price themselves out of Poles range. He has Moore and isn't breaking the bank for a #2 or #3.

23 hours ago, HuskieBear said:

FA - one of Sweat/Young, maybe target oliver? big names i dont expect to leave their teams but would fit here (burns, bosa, williams, gary, ridley, winfield, pittman, diggs, uche)

1st - DE (dallas turner?)

1st - CB (kalen king?)

2nd - WR (malik nabers?)

3rd - C (idk)

I like Turner a lot but if Anderson was too light for Eberflus I don't see Turner being the same fit, and I don't like any EDGE this year - Verse, Turner or Sawyer included - the same as I did Anderson. I think if looking early at an EDGE then I think Sawyer and Tui from Ohio State are great options though.

Honestly unrealistic, but I LOVE the idea of Dexter dropping to 300lbs and grabbing Maason Smith, then making them both the big DEs with length that Eberflus seems to favor.

Smith - Billings - Walker - Dexter in base then in a passrush set you have Pickens sub in for Billings? That is pretty damn solid IMO. And Jones becomes a super sub on the inside while Gibson/Robinson can get reps at EDGE. Walker may be listed as a DE but I think he is a much better fit at 3T, or at least he was more productive there from what I have seen.

For CB I like Melton if he falls to the later 1st pick and Marshall (UF) in the 2nd and Storm Duck should be drafted just based on his name.

His RAS won't be great but I like Gadsden at WR in the 3rd. Not sure if he sticks to WR or becomes the move TE but I think his receiving ability is pretty damn good for a guy his size. Catches a lot of off-target balls (they accidentally trained him for back-shoulder catches!  lol), usually catches well away from his body and plays primarily out of the slot too. Plus he seems to find zones and sit in them really well from the little I have watched. That will have value with a mobile QB like Fields. I'd be happy with him in the 3rd. Maybe even the 2nd of he keeps working on his routes.

I know almost no centers atm, I saw Foster from TAM on Feldman's Freak List and looked him up. I like Tippmann more but he would be a solid option in the 2nd. I know Georgia has that mammoth kid at C. He is a bruiser who seemed nasty when I'd watch GA, so IDK what he is projected but that is a hell of a start for any IOL. There are some OGs I would look to move to OC if the Bears really want higher end athletes at OG. Guys like Spraggins from TEN or Robinson from ATM. Both big dudes who can dig people out and anchor. Phone booth guys. Both might be worth 3-5 rounders based on play this year. We all know my love for OTs to be all across the OL. Truss and Mims from GA are guys that might or might not be pro OTs, but both likely could do really well inside. Really athletic for their size, I think they would be good IOL options if investing earlier picks. 

[Superman(DH23)]

2 hours ago, Sugashane said:

5. LT - not a necessary need, but if Jones just looks pretty good but is still really struggling with powerful rushers then the Bears may have a hard time looking away from someone like Olu Fashanu if Fields looks to be the guy. That isn't to say Jones would be given up on, but with Whitehair having one foot out the door and Jenkins having concerns (be it by staff or injuries) he may be looked to kick inside while the Poles adds the best OL prospect he can. Jones is a solid athlete as an OT so moving him to C would allow a significant upside and athleticism to be added there, and there are OGs to assist if he gets put on a tank of a NT. And honestly, an OL with Fashanu/Wright as the bookends just seems too good to be true.  

Suga, I'm not trying to kill ya, but this take is in line with the "let's take Fields off the field so Roschon Johnson can play QB" take.  First of all, Jones isn't just a "solid" athlete, he's an athlete at the the LT position in the NFL, which is really saying something.  He has every tool in the toolbox and if you redrafted the rookie OTs from last year he goes in the first round and probably the first OT off the board.  The idea that the Bears would take a 6'6" guy with his length, size, and athleticism and move him inside to CENTER is asinine.  Not to mention, to the best of my knowledge HE HAS NEVER SNAPPED A BALL IN HIS LIFE.  I dare say JF1 will take a snap from me before he takes one from Braxton Jones.  

I know Bears fans are killing Braxton bc he didn't immediately come in and be Joe Thomas and bc he was a 5th round rookie from Southern Utah who they had never heard of before the Bears drafted him, but again he graded out as an ELITE level run blocker.  Not solid, not good, ELITE level run blocker (and the tape backs this up) that means something.  And an above average pass protector, again that means something.  Unless Braxton has a serious regression don't expect Ryan Poles or the Bears to move off of him anytime soon.

[Sugashane]

1 hour ago, Superman(DH23) said:

Suga, I'm not trying to kill ya, but this take is in line with the "let's take Fields off the field so Roschon Johnson can play QB" take.  First of all, Jones isn't just a "solid" athlete, he's an athlete at the the LT position in the NFL, which is really saying something.  He has every tool in the toolbox and if you redrafted the rookie OTs from last year he goes in the first round and probably the first OT off the board.  The idea that the Bears would take a 6'6" guy with his length, size, and athleticism and move him inside to CENTER is asinine.  Not to mention, to the best of my knowledge HE HAS NEVER SNAPPED A BALL IN HIS LIFE.  I dare say JF1 will take a snap from me before he takes one from Braxton Jones.  

I know Bears fans are killing Braxton bc he didn't immediately come in and be Joe Thomas and bc he was a 5th round rookie from Southern Utah who they had never heard of before the Bears drafted him, but again he graded out as an ELITE level run blocker.  Not solid, not good, ELITE level run blocker (and the tape backs this up) that means something.  And an above average pass protector, again that means something.  Unless Braxton has a serious regression don't expect Ryan Poles or the Bears to move off of him anytime soon.

I'm not taking offense to any of your points, Supe. Its all good and they're valid points. I'll counter though since this is a good discussion.

Solid was meant as a compliment, not just serviceable or anything. Not elite tools in the terms of like Lane Johnson or Becton (who hasn't done squat in the NFL, just noting athletic gifts). As for my preferences in C, I prefer that to be the phone booth guy if you have one. But the Bears rolled with Mustipher and Patrick as their top 2 options, so clearly they weren't looking for powerful brawlers. They wanted guys who could move, and Jones has that in spades. And having an athletic and talented C opens a TON of versatility to the OL.

As from Fields taking snaps from you, I don't believe for a second your RAS is up to snuff for Poles. (Mine isn't either) 😁

As far as snapping the ball, that isn't a huge deal to me. Coaches get paid to teach people how to do it. I've worked with high schoolers and they can pick it up, the staff is way better than me and a bunch of other nobodies and they are way better athletes than the kids we worked with. Whitehair never was a C in college, he was an OG, then OT, and drafted straight to be a C. Look at MIA, they have Connor Williams as the C. Never played it before. He was a TE and OT in high school, started as a LT in college, and then played LG and RG in DAL (I think he subbed at OT but might be 100% wrong there). McDaniels immediately threw him at C. You know what he said? “We weren’t signing him to be a center. We were signing offensive linemen.” He then said about his C, “You want someone that can really move. In an ideal world, you can do the best job attacking the defense if you have some athleticism at the position and some strength,” he said, “It’s close quarters; it’s as close to the ball as any player on the line of scrimmage. They have to make line calls that four other players are depending on, so we’re all on the same page." To me that rings a perfect role for Jones, it describes him to a tee. He is best at attacking, is a really good athlete, has some strength but is still getting stronger, and has been said to be smart and highly coachable. The staff seems to love him. I'm not saying he is Kelce there, but do I think he can be a top 5 C with training? I really do. The best OLs get the best 5 guys on the line in roles they can thrive in, Jones can play anywhere IMO.

I have zero issues with Jones, but I get what you are saying about general fans killing the kid. Its crazy. I was only talking about with an elite prospect like Fashanu, who was my favorite OL prospect in the draft, even more than Wright and it wasn't really close. I liked him more than Jenkins and we know how I loved him as a prospect. I think getting Fashanu and moving Jones to C would be as much of an improvement to the OL as kicking Jenkins to LG and Whitehair to C, it improves both spots and I fully believe Jones would thrive inside. Not knocking him as an OT, just saying he can do well anywhere and I think he could REALLY be special at C. Regardless of where he plays, it looks like Poles killed it with that pick.

You're correct about Poles not moving on too I'd wager, that is more just my own logic at him being able to move around and be special. He will have off games this season most likely but like you said, 5th round kid from Southern Utah and he has played exceptionally well overall as a rookie. Huge win. I just want the best 5 on the field, and I'm sick of middling OLs being one of the few constants in the franchise.

[Ty21]

Is there any reason we can’t plug Braxton Jones at qb while Fields takes a break for a couple drives?

[beardown3231]

3 hours ago, Ty21 said:

Is there any reason we can’t plug Braxton Jones at qb while Fields takes a break for a couple drives?

They already have Roschon to be QB1 on those drives. Duh

[Ty21]

22 minutes ago, beardown3231 said:

They already have Roschon to be QB1 on those drives. Duh

But what about when Roschon and Justin are tired at the same time?

[CBears019]

1 hour ago, beardown3231 said:

They already have Roschon to be QB1 on those drives. Duh

Roschon will fill in at LT when Braxton is QB.

[beardown3231]

8 hours ago, Ty21 said:

But what about when Roschon and Justin are tired at the same time?

 

7 hours ago, CBears019 said:

Roschon will fill in at LT when Braxton is QB.

Good point guys. Not sure how I didn't think of that

Dominique Robinson played QB in high school. Keep Jones at LT and let him play QB