CP3MVP Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 The jets have been horribly run for ten years though why would he want to go there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 33 minutes ago, CP3MVP said: The jets have been horribly run for ten years though why would he want to go there. Because the GM & coaching staff who ran it horribly were canned 1 year ago and this year. GM Joe Douglas seems to be very much on the right track there. His year 1 work has been impressive. 3 years ago ppl were talking about the Browns and even 1-2 years ago ppl were talking about the Bucs in the same group of dysfunctional franchises. Times change. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetjuice Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 On 1/29/2021 at 11:13 AM, soflbillsfan said: I am not jaded about the situation, I think Jets fans are clamoring for this like they do with so many times before. The fact is your talking about pieces and cap that will be eaten up as soon as you trade for him, it has taken teams multiple 1st rd picks, mid rd picks and players to trade for non qb positions. you dont think that cost is going to be double that when it comes to a franchise qb in his prime? it is going to deplete majority of Jets draft capital. Its not like you are one or two pieces away and watson is filling one of those 2. He is one of 10+ positions that are missing. Not to mention the cap hit that follows him so you may have all this cap now but the cap hits will accumulate once it is on there and you will no longer have that much cap flow in 2022 offseason that you think you do. Jets fans and bloggers have been saying the GM is the one to turn it around ever since Tannebaum left, then Idzik got canned a year later for being to conservative with his money. Then you hire Mac who not only had multiple draft picks while he was there but two times of having 100+ mil in cap space yet he did nothing with the funds nor the picks. So you can try to sell that this Gm and HC are different but the one thing that still remains is the ownerships ability to find the correct pieces in which it sticks maybe it does hit this time. Stability is what sells in the NFL, if you have a capable HC and GM who have stuck around then players will want to come there. Jets have proven time and time again they do not have this and that is why I do not see this move being smart for both Watson and the Jets. Players mingle all the time but they dont go to cities just because they are able to do so. These athletes fly on their day's off to watch teams play all the time, if player mingling was a big thing then how come the chargers, dolphins, and giants/jets are the ones who have struggled so much to bring in talent? I think this has been a long standing myth. People in Miami continue to say we have South Beach, we have the big 3 in Miami (at the time), and we have zero state tax we will be getting everyone to come to the Dolphins, guess what they got players to live in Miami but play for teams with stable franchises like the Patriots, like the Steelers, like the Ravens, like the Seahawks. What does OBJ do when he makes the playoffs with the Giants, he goes down to South Beach to party 3 days prior to the game with other players and teammates. So the idea of player mingling and other factors outside of the actual organization are mere myths. Knicks have been said to be the most talked about desirable destination for top free agents in the NBA, yet they get passed over year after year because of dysfunctional ownership. The market is there, the cap was always there for them yet no one would come. Look I am not trying to bash the Jets, the truth is I think the Jets are in a great position and I think they stay put with the picks and cap they have and build a team through the draft as it will likely be more successful then trying to cover up all the issues they have by going all in on Watson. Douglas cleared some space, made some trades to build draft picks and brought in a HC. Time to build the team up as you have 4-5 years to do so. Putting Watson in a Jets jersey now gives your time frame 2-3 years based on the media and hype that will be surrounding this move as expectations will be high and can quickly collapse if all the pieces arent put in. I've ran through the cap and draft pick scenario more times than you probably want to know, and even with trading for Watson and signing a premier free agent WR like Allen Robinson, we are still sitting pretty cap wise. A team like the Dolphins is going to be a lot more cap-strapped after a trade like this with how they are currently positioned, and they cannot offer the same type of package in a trade anyway. Picks wise, it is an unprecedented trade so we will have to see, but we are in the driver's seat for being able to make such a trade with two 1sts this year and next, and the 2nd overall pick this year which should instantly make us the highest bidder. Don't undervalue the #2 overall pick either, that is not a typical first rounder in a trade like this. Our package of three first round picks would blow away a team like the 49ers, Panthers, or any team picking outside the top 5 trying to put together a package for Watson. First round picks are also less valuable the further into the future they are, so any team negotiating against us with future picks will be at a disadvantage. We can offer the Texans 3 picks inside the top 35 THIS year, or some combination of that with our two firsts next year. And that's all depending on how stubborn Watson wants to be with his NTC. You're really banking on history repeating itself here, which does not seem likely to be the case this go-around. Even you have to admit that not a single person in NFL circles had nearly as many positive comments about Idzik/Mac or Bowles/Gase than what we have now. Saleh was the top coaching candidate in this cycle and JD has shown nothing but an aptitude for making shrewd moves to optimize his teams assets (see: robbery of Seattle Seahawks) and had a rock-solid first draft. Stability had eluded Cleveland for a while too but they finally got the right pieces in place and got their first playoff win in decades. How long did it take Andrew Berry to bring that team to playoff contention? Not long. Hell, stability even eluded your very own Bills and the same Dolphins that went from projected worst team in the league to a fringe playoff team in one year. The new regime always has a chance to buck the trends. And those Browns were arguably worse off than the Jets currently are, so there goes that. Players know that we have the right guys in place finally and that's why you see other players suggesting Watson will wind up a Jet. Things like this didn't happen with Idzik/Mac/Gase here. The leaders in place and the flexibility we have to bring in the RIGHT guys around Deshaun, along with the marketing opportunity (that you continue to blow off) is just another reason why NY is going to be a hot free agent destination. You don't think agents and players project future success the same way teams and analysts and fans like us do? That's part of the job. You suggesting that the Jets new management is going to fail because of previous management's history is a complete logical fallacy. Also on one hand you are saying we can't draft well or spend our cap well, but now that we have a chance to get a proven commodity in his prime at the most important position in football, a trade which would be completely unheard of in NFL history, you say we should pass and stick to what has not historically been working? Which side of the coin are you on here? That's why I said you're a jaded Bills fan, because you are contradicting yourself and refuse to acknowledge the position the Jets are in right now. Also, historically the Giants/Jets/Dolphins/LA teams don't struggle to sign free agents at all, not sure where you're coming from with that. Additionally, not every player is going to have the same priorities in terms of where they play. You don't think these players have their agents pushing for them to maximize their earning potential while still in their prime and able-bodied when that can all change in a single play? It's a short career in the NFL, many of these players rely on football to change their family's fortunes forever. Giving that up for the cost of "winning" as you say, may not make sense for every free agent. But for those who ARE looking to capitalize on the marketing opportunities around them, will have the best opportunity to do so in robust markets like NYC, and that's not debatable. The Jets have the unique opportunity where we have such a clean slate that we can bring in star players in their prime - at fair market value - to come play for the top head coaching candidate in this years cycle, all the while not crippling ourselves from a cap standpoint and having a plethora of premium draft picks to spend on young incoming talent to supplement the vets even if the trade doesn't happen. There is an upward trajectory in NYC no matter how you slice it. The proof is in the pudding, where there's smoke, there's fire, and it'll settle soon. We make the most sense for a trade on paper for many reasons. I predict we will acquire him, but we will see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetjuice Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 20 minutes ago, Broncofan said: Because the GM & coaching staff who ran it horribly were canned 1 year ago and this year. GM Joe Douglas seems to be very much on the right track there. His year 1 work has been impressive. 3 years ago ppl were talking about the Browns and even 1-2 years ago ppl were talking about the Bucs in the same group of dysfunctional franchises. Times change. Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biggie. Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 59 minutes ago, CP3MVP said: The jets have been horribly run for fifty years though why would he want to go there. Ftfy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CP3MVP Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 56 minutes ago, biggie. said: Ftfy I can’t believe I’m defending the jets but from 98-2010 they were good run franchise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CP3MVP Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 1 hour ago, Broncofan said: Because the GM & coaching staff who ran it horribly were canned 1 year ago and this year. GM Joe Douglas seems to be very much on the right track there. His year 1 work has been impressive. 3 years ago ppl were talking about the Browns and even 1-2 years ago ppl were talking about the Bucs in the same group of dysfunctional franchises. Times change. So unproven people who have never won crap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirill Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 17 hours ago, DirtyDez said: 70%/4,800/9YPA with no running game. He’s ELITE. His arm velocity is all-time bad it will be more of a problem in the playoffs than regular season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malik Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 43 minutes ago, CP3MVP said: I can’t believe I’m defending the jets but from 98-2010 they were good run franchise 7 playoff appearances with an 8-8 record 3 conference championship appearances. Had a some Hall of Famers Martin, Revis, Mawae, and maybe Mangold and some elite guys like John Abraham, Mo Lewis, Leon Washington, D'Brickashaw Ferguson, Antonio Cromartie, Shaun Ellis, Alan Faneca, etc. Obviously there was a lot of room for improvement, but it was a nice time to be a fan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenos Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 16 minutes ago, Kirill said: His arm velocity is all-time bad it will be more of a problem in the playoffs than regular season. His arm isn’t elite but it’s fine for the NFL. Guys with the same arm strength or worse like Brees and Montana have done well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 4 hours ago, Xenos said: His arm isn’t elite but it’s fine for the NFL. Guys with the same arm strength or worse like Brees and Montana have done well. Shhhh... he doesn't know who Montana is. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaFellSBXLIXMVP Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 Maybe with this Stafford trade some people here will understand the value of great QBs in the NFL today, let alone a very young and amazing QB like Watson. Like I kept saying here: 4 FRP to start the conversation if it's to a bad team and 5 FRP plus if it's to a good team, especially in the AFC. You trade Watson to a good team and you'll getting the same value as early 2nd rounders with your FRPs. Trade him to Miami and that team goes 13-3 / 14-2. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 26 minutes ago, LaFellSBXLIXMVP said: Maybe with this Stafford trade some people here will understand the value of great QBs in the NFL today, let alone a very young and amazing QB like Watson. Like I kept saying here: 4 FRP to start the conversation if it's to a bad team and 5 FRP plus if it's to a good team, especially in the AFC. You trade Watson to a good team and you'll getting the same value as early 2nd rounders with your FRPs. Trade him to Miami and that team goes 13-3 / 14-2. And @jrry32 might own up that Goff had negative value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 Just now, Matts4313 said: And @jrry32 might own up that Goff had negative value. He must have. I will have to eat crow on that. But I'll stay on my sinking ship and say the Rams were unbelievably stupid to make this trade. They sold Goff when his value must have been at its lowest (not that their comments helped). If they don't win a Super Bowl with Stafford, they've screwed the pooch in a major way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 6 minutes ago, jrry32 said: He must have. I will have to eat crow on that. But I'll stay on my sinking ship and say the Rams were unbelievably stupid to make this trade. They sold Goff when his value must have been at its lowest (not that their comments helped). If they don't win a Super Bowl with Stafford, they've screwed the pooch in a major way. I mean, I get it from the Rams' perspective. There wasn't any realistic way for them to improve their QB position, and I'm sure McVay didn't think he could win with Goff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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