Deadpulse Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 In this thread we will be deciding the 8th entrant into the FF Best Movie Ever Tournament - Fantasy movie from the 1940s and earlier! Please see rules at the following thread: Poll is up and there can only be one! Keep in mind the amount of votes the winner receives will help determine seeding in the bracket, so dont stop voting for the movie you think deserve the spot because its winning by a landslide, your vote will still count! Polling will close Thursday, 6/18/2020 at 4:00pm EST. @Calvert28 @Pickle Rick@Uncle Buck@THE DUKE @Dome @The Orca @August4th @thrILL! @Malfatron @Elky @daboyle250 @rackcs @MikeT14 @Daniel @MWil23 @seminoles1 @scar988 @JoshstraDaymus @JonStark @animaltested @Ozzy @Bullet Club @AlexGreen#20 @Fresh Prince @KManX89 @TENINCH @SlevinKelevra @bucsfan333 @Ray Reed @Bucketheadsdad @kingseanjohn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 Fantasia is a better film than The Wizard of Oz? What in the hell. Fantasia sucked and I hated watching it as a kid honestly. Have never watched it as an adult but never wanted to either. The Wizard of Oz is only on TV constantly around the holidays because people actually want to see that movie again and again. If Fantasia wins this time span that is absolute BS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 2 hours ago, Ozzy said: Fantasia is a better film than The Wizard of Oz? What in the hell. Fantasia sucked and I hated watching it as a kid honestly. Have never watched it as an adult but never wanted to either. The Wizard of Oz is only on TV constantly around the holidays because people actually want to see that movie again and again. If Fantasia wins this time span that is absolute BS. Fantasia was a groundbreaking film, and yeah, I will die on the hill that it's better. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 13 hours ago, Daniel said: Fantasia was a groundbreaking film, and yeah, I will die on the hill that it's better. And The Wizard of Oz was not groundbreaking how? So as a child you actually enjoyed watching Fantasia? I hated it then and maybe would like it better now, might have to check it out now in my 30s but I doubt it. Dorothy is arguably one of the best female heroines in all of film history. Compared to what, a mouse dancing around to classical music? The music is great in Fantasia but it is the best film not best score, which The Wizard of Oz won an Oscar for and arguably Somewhere Over the Rainbow is one of the best original songs in any film. So it is not like it has bad music and has way more of a story and clear cut characters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 14 minutes ago, Ozzy said: And The Wizard of Oz was not groundbreaking how? So as a child you actually enjoyed watching Fantasia? I hated it then and maybe would like it better now, might have to check it out now in my 30s but I doubt it. Dorothy is arguably one of the best female heroines in all of film history. Compared to what, a mouse dancing around to classical music? The music is great in Fantasia but it is the best film not best score, which The Wizard of Oz won an Oscar for and arguably Somewhere Over the Rainbow is one of the best original songs in any film. So it is not like it has bad music and has way more of a story and clear cut characters. I didn't say it wasn't. I'm pointing out that both are important films from the period and have a legit argument. And I think Fantasia holds up way better to adulthood and time than WOO. And yes, I loved Fantasia as a child, as I explained when I nominated it. Multiple segments come up all the time, especially the Mickey Mouse segment, but also the Chernabog segment. It airs like 100 times every Halloween. If "having a story" is the bar, and not experimentation which pushed the boundaries as to what you could do with animation and storytelling in a film, then yeah, vote Oz. But if WOO vs. Fantasia is your line in the sand on these, when we've got ******* Hook as a nomination for best film of all time, then I don't know what to tell you, other than weird flex. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 37 minutes ago, Daniel said: I didn't say it wasn't. I'm pointing out that both are important films from the period and have a legit argument. And I think Fantasia holds up way better to adulthood and time than WOO. And yes, I loved Fantasia as a child, as I explained when I nominated it. Multiple segments come up all the time, especially the Mickey Mouse segment, but also the Chernabog segment. It airs like 100 times every Halloween. If "having a story" is the bar, and not experimentation which pushed the boundaries as to what you could do with animation and storytelling in a film, then yeah, vote Oz. But if WOO vs. Fantasia is your line in the sand on these, when we've got ******* Hook as a nomination for best film of all time, then I don't know what to tell you, other than weird flex. Hook won because of the situation and no other real competition at all. Others either did not fit the category or were simply not as good. If more would have nominated The Lion King, Aladdin or Beauty and the Beast those could have possibly taken out Hook but they were not nominated. I did not nominate them because they are cartoons but clearly in the fantasy category most cartoons fit and are put into it. If considering those Disney classics as fantasy I would probably say Beauty and the Beast over Hook. But Hook all the way for freaking Nightmare Before Christmas. The Wizard of Oz losing to Fantasia would be a huge loss because it is arguably the best fantasy film all time and to me no way Fantasia is better than it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 8 minutes ago, Ozzy said: Hook won because of the situation and no other real competition at all. Others either did not fit the category or were simply not as good. If more would have nominated The Lion King, Aladdin or Beauty and the Beast those could have possibly taken out Hook but they were not nominated. I did not nominate them because they are cartoons but clearly in the fantasy category most cartoons fit and are put into it. If considering those Disney classics as fantasy I would probably say Beauty and the Beast over Hook. But Hook all the way for freaking Nightmare Before Christmas. The Wizard of Oz losing to Fantasia would be a huge loss because it is arguably the best fantasy film all time and to me no way Fantasia is better than it. Oh, so your subjective enjoyment of the films is what makes it matter, not novelty, originality, or influence. Gotcha. I guess I'll counter with: Wizard of Oz sucks and is arguably the worst fantasy film of all time. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Daniel said: Oh, so your subjective enjoyment of the films is what makes it matter, not novelty, originality, or influence. Gotcha. I guess I'll counter with: Wizard of Oz sucks and is arguably the worst fantasy film of all time. Novelty, originality or influence? Fantasia provided all of those to you? Ok great have at it. What Fantasia is one of your favorite films all time or something? Hope so, because The Wizard of Oz is one of my favorites all time regardless, thus I defend it to a musical cartoon with no real defined story. Great music sure but already covered The Wizard of Oz had great music as well. So take that music out what do you got, one great story and the other is just random animation, basically cartoons dancing to music in any way the animated wanted them to. Maybe I will have to rewatch Fantasia this summer with this much fanfare. Edited June 17, 2020 by Ozzy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadpulse Posted June 17, 2020 Author Share Posted June 17, 2020 14 minutes ago, Ozzy said: So take that music out what do you got, one great story and the other is just random animation, basically cartoons dancing to music in any way the animated wanted them to. That is such a BS argument. You can't deconstruct a movie and then compare it. That's like saying both of these pizza's have great crust, so let's take that away and what are you left with? A mess of cheese and sauce.... You take the movie as a whole or not at all. Movies aren't made so that each piece stands on its own, they are made so that each piece works seamlessly together to create something more than the pieces add up to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 3 minutes ago, Deadpulse said: That is such a BS argument. You can't deconstruct a movie and then compare it. That's like saying both of these pizza's have great crust, so let's take that away and what are you left with? A mess of cheese and sauce.... You take the movie as a whole or not at all. Movies aren't made so that each piece stands on its own, they are made so that each piece works seamlessly together to create something more than the pieces add up to. Maybe, but when comparing yes I would absolute take into account with a pizza a great crust as something different than great toppings. Same thing with films especially if one considers them close in any regard, which I do not but still. Not all movies work seamlessly together, I have seen many visually awesome films that have a crap storyline so it ultimately is a crap movie. Sure works great if it works all together as one but that does not always happen and I separate different parts all the time. The few that get multiple things right are actually noteworthy. Sure each piece does not stand on its own but if something drops the ball compared to the rest it can ruin an entire film I feel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadpulse Posted June 17, 2020 Author Share Posted June 17, 2020 The music and animation are designed to complement each other in Fantasia, they are not meant to be individual entities. Your argument is severely flawed, just because parts are better in comparison does not mean the whole is. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seminoles1 Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 3 hours ago, Ozzy said: And The Wizard of Oz was not groundbreaking how? So as a child you actually enjoyed watching Fantasia? I hated it then and maybe would like it better now, might have to check it out now in my 30s but I doubt it. Is that your basis for picking these movies, if you liked it better as a child? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
animaltested Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 14 minutes ago, seminoles1 said: Is that your basis for picking these movies, if you liked it better as a child? Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles is the greatest Samurai movie of all time. Kurosawa can go kick rocks. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 1 hour ago, Deadpulse said: That is such a BS argument. 1 hour ago, Ozzy said: Maybe, but... I stopped reading when you essentially admitted that your argument is bad. Fantasia yall! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 1 minute ago, Daniel said: I stopped reading when you essentially admitted that your argument is bad. Fantasia yall! I sure hope some of you that defend Fantasia really really love the movie and actually do consider it an all time favorite of yours. Which I do question honestly if that is the case, no one has actually come out and said that. You specifically defend Fantasia like you defend Tennessee football prospects it seems. Don't worry Dorothy, looks like we might have a winner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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